Vatican was warned about abusive priest, NYT reports

Testing one two three

Raymond Burke was Bishop of Wisconsin and most likely would have known of this as well.
Burke was successor of Cardinal Rigali of STL, and later was placed in ROME by the Pope himself and made Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, which is sorta like the head of the Supreme COurt for the church.
Interesting huh?

One should look at this in context of the political issues of the present time. The Pope has recently called for a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict (so did Obama, but everybody laughed after Biden and Clinton reassured Israel), condemned all Middle Eastern wars of aggression that the neo-cons have dragged the West into, including the possible attack/war against Iran. Moreover, he initiated the beatification of Pius XII.

IN short, Benedict is probably not AIPAC's favourite. They would prefer to replace him by a John Hagee type, if possible, ...

The scandal seems to go on and on and on.
It is ruining the chance for the Pope to be a spiritual leader, to bring a renewal of Catholic faith to Europe.

I rarely go to church. I find it difficult to believe in the God of the evangelical christians who don't believe in science and do believe in the inerrancy of a book written over the course of thousands of years by man trying to limit God to human language and concepts, and Catholics who believe a Pope can not speak in error.

As little as I like the idea that one faith that preaches God and love triumps over another faith that preaches the same thing, I still believe in the search for God and I still believe that many of our religious institutions, including the Catholic Church, can help us find that which is godly.

If he hadn't help make this messy bed he is lying in, I would feel sorry for Ratzinger/Benedict. I am sorry for another lost opportunity for the Catholic Church to bring conversations to the world on the nature of God and good.

This indicates complicity by the hierarchy of the Church. It is beginning to force the question of, "What did the Pope know and when did he know it?" and the Holy See does not appear to realize the level to which this is rising. Somebody needs to check in and act.

When is a member of congress or a senator finally going to have the guts to call for ending U.S. diplomatic relations with the Vatican?

Anyone who considers themselves to be a Catholic should be ashamed for supporting a church that hides child abusers.

You Catholics are fools, its so easy to laugh at your gullibility and ignorance.

Amelia45, your statement "Catholics who believe a Pope can not speak in error," is truly a sign of ignorance about what you claim to speak. Of course faithful traditional Catholics believe the Pope and any Pope can err in speech, actions, etc. on any number of things. We even believe that Popes can be downright gawdawful sinners and scoundrels..and that there are many who have been. What you are referring to and obviously misunderstand is the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility, which applies only to matters of Catholic doctrine or dogma, a limited sphere of subject matter in the Church, one which has to do with our beliefs about the salvific mission of Christ. But is the pope said the world is flat, that you can jump off a building and fly, don't drive over 55, whatever, etc.--these are not matters of faith and doctrine. The Pope can be wrong about them as easily as you could be.

If these claims are true, can the Pope be tried in an International Criminal Court?

It is time for a new pope and then call for VATICAN III. Trying to keep truth silent always backfires.

Evils perpetrated by the Catholic and other religions' priest are on and evergoing, and trace back to their beginnings, when one accepted conversion or was tortured and killed.

Religion has been, and is still a major factor in wars and politics.

Strangest of ALL - - it is the Atheists and Agnostics who practice a higher level of morality and ethics.

It is yet unknown for how long sexual abuse has existed within the Catholic church. One thing I do know, as far as judgement is concerned, this is NOT an entirely or uniquely a Catholic phenomena. Sexual abuse is everywhere. And the comment was very to the point that to deal with the matter is one thing, but another to expect to air ones dirty laundry in public to resolve the problem is foolish. Yes, the other point agreed is that scum lawyers win out big time in furthur in reopeneing older cases.
Stupid move to the person who suggested breaking off diplomatic ties. Obviously, they do not understand the positioning/role of the church in its spiritual and political import.

I hope a district attorney in the states and Interpol send out arrest warrants. the the old fool will never be able Vatican city.

Can a pope continue to be a pope even if he has committed a mortal sin and has not received absolution?

I am pretty sure that actions he took that knowingly allowed predatory priests to keep preying on children, or prevented the proper emotional and spiritual healing of the victims is a mortal sin. Or if not that, sacrificing the safety of young children to avoid exposing the Catholic church to scandal is surely a mortal sin.

Now every Catholic, active or lapsed, knows that there is no forgiveness without repentance and there is no true repentance without penance. And no, three Hail Mary's is going to do it.

Catholic doctrine says Jesus Christ did penance for the sins of all men. This pope won't even do penance for his own sins. I am a lapsed Catholic who does not believe in the mythology of a flesh-and-blood Antichrist come down to herald the end of tie, so I will not accuse this pope of being the Antichrist. I will accuse his actions of being the opposite what Jesus Christ did, so in this sense I accuse him of being (small 'a') anti-Christ.

Perhaps it is not to soon to suggest that all American Catholics reading this contemplate withdrawing their financial support from this institution until the Vatican is forced to admit and deal with this most heinous legacy of abuse and secrecy involving so many innocent children all over the world. The staggering wealth of the Church of Rome has nurtured the power to allow this systemic dysfunction to perpetuate itself. It would not take long for them to realize that just as Jesus displayed full anger at the sinful merchants in His temple, WE are now the angry ones that demand that THIS house be cleared of all evil.

I remember several years ago when the American Bishops hired former Oklahoma governor (and former prosecutor) Frank Keating to investigate child abuse. His investigation was to take about a year, but he quit in disgust, saying that if he wasn't dealing with the Catholic church, he would consider the American bishops a continuing criminal enterprise. As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church has ZERO moral authority on anything -- especially life issues (birth control, abortion, end-of-life decisions).

Cover-up of degenerate and perverted pedophilia cases is not new or rare in the Catholic Church. In fact, in Chile some years back, Monsignor Francisco José Cox who has attained a very high positin in the Vatican was sent back to Chile as he was caught having sex with minors.
Upon his return, Monsignor Cox was protected by the Cardinal Errazuriz by sending him to Colombia to evade Chilean justice. Errazuriz should have been prosecuted in Chile for aiding and abbetting a known criminal degenerate.
This episode was conveniently downsized by the extreme right-wing newspaper El Mercurio (known as El Perjurio, for obvious reasons).
To this day, Cox remains free...free to have sex with children in Colombia, while the hypocrite Errazuriz keeps pretending that his childhood friend (yes, childhood friend) is carrying on his shoulder the "heavy cross that Jesusu imposed on him", as the criminal basterd once put it.

"Others did it, too!"

"Others did it, too!"

"Others did it, too!"

"It's OK because others did it, too!"

Except, of course, "others" don't pretend to be the Pope, Christ's vicar on earth.

Apologies to those of you who are dedicated to the Catholic church, but all of this makes my skin crawl.

WHEN in the world are any of you who are tried and true Catholics going to stand up and SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER -- the hierarchy? Nothing, and I mean nothing, will change until those who support this institution speak up and act out and say, "NO MORE. NOT IN OUR NAMES."

If enough people left the church or removed their support through the almighty $$$, then we would see progress.

Why so much protection? Why such profound passivity?

How do recent revelations affect the Catholic faithful's adherence to the Church's teachings, and belief in its moral authority? For all many Catholics know, some of the bishops who make up the Magesterium (the Church's teaching authority) have hidden horribly destructive -- not to mention criminal -- behavior.

Even as many of us continue to hold a strong faith in the God of our Catholicism, our trust in the "Church Militant" -- the Body of Christ on earth --is dismayed, and in some cases eroding. The Church advocates for life. But does the high-hierarchical cover up of pedohphilia overshadow the Church's professed pro-life identity? Does even the legitimate concern that many innocent priests (the vast majority) will be accused of wrongdoing eclipse the priority of safety for children and adolescents?

Is the incidence of pedophilia in the Catholic Church higher than in the general population? No. Is the incidence of pedophilia in the Catholic Church higher than in other Christian denominations; other religions; and many secular institutions? No. The difference is that our Church hierarchy identifies itself as the ultimate moral authority and holds the faithful accountable for personal witness to this. It ask us to pledge to sin no more, and to avoid the near occasion of sin.

I ask the hierarchy of the "Church militant" that I love: Is it right and good for you to hold the faithful accountable to a standard that you don't strive to model? Has the hierarchy become like those Jesus describes in the Gospel, who not only "won't go in" themselves, but bar others from entering, as well? None of us is perfect. But some are entrusted with the wellbeing of the Body of Christ on earth.

Please: acknowledge these grievous wrongs and ask forgiveness. Raise and address the issue of child abuse everywhere, within the Church and elsewhere, acknowledging that the Church is not immune to this scarring human behavior. Succor the victimized. Establish a range of systemic protections for children. Screen more effectively for psychologically and emotionally impaired persons seeking to become priests or continue priestly duties. Swiftly address, according to the law, credible allegations of abuse. Show the faithful, and the world, that the Church can live the humility and leadership it cites as hallmarks of the Logos. We will gladly follow you.

Good, that proved my point exactly! You deleted my intellectually-honest posting because it had a couple of very tame sexual terms which "On FAITH" readers (or editors?) can't handle speaking or reading or seeing. So, good luck EVER dealing with real-world issues that destroy innocent childrens' lives.

Do you see now why Ratzinger and others just moved those pedophile priests along down the road? Like you just did to me, "yadayada I cant hear you" with your fingers in your ears. Shame on you, claiming to be moral than the rest of us. Ha! Ugly souls, who refuse to look at the world honestly and openly.

"Anyone who considers themselves to be a Catholic should be ashamed for supporting a church that hides child abusers.
You Catholics are fools, its so easy to laugh at your gullibility and ignorance.
Posted by: kenk3 | March 25, 2010 11:56 AM
Report Offensive Comment"

the Catholic Church is the church of My Lord Jesus Christ...
it does not belong to the pope, the priests or any nun...
they are just caretakers, nothing more...
they shoud remove the gays from the priesthood...
they can start there...

This storm will produce interesting effects, some of them hopefully positive. They really should set up an independent investigative body, outside of Rome, to handle alleged moral and financial crimes by clerics and religious. It's too much of a task for the Vatican's tiny bureaucracy. Some dioceses already use independent audit firms for their finances, so there is a precedent.

As for the future of some members of the hierarchy, let the chips fall where they may. I've never understood those Catholics who are heavily invested in the pope or bishops. When these do a good job, they deserve respect; when they do a bad job, censure. The faith ought to be a local thing, lived primarily at home and in the parish. More than that seems to wade into the area of worldly glamour.

I wouldn't hesitate to report to the police someone committing a crime and don't think it does any disservice. Quite the contrary actually, as recent events have shown. Heartbreaking for those deaf boys. I hope they find some peace and comfort. Being so directly touched by evil is certainly not an easy thing to bear.

Deal with the real world, and the honest facts: HETEROSEXUAL MEN are the overwhelming majority of sexual predators in the general population. Overwhelming. BUT, in the Catholic Church, where a number of sexual repressive issues exist, it gets even weirder.

So, no... NO. Gays are NOT a threat to children. Just ask my kids. And I am gay, so your nonsense is directly offensive to me. Gay and lesbian parenting is no different than any other. Kids need love and attention etc etc.

One should look at this in context of the political issues of the present time. The Pope has recently called for a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict......

IN short, Benedict is probably not AIPAC's favourite. They would prefer to replace him by a John Hagee type, if possible, ...

Posted by: Alphysicist |
___________________________

Of course, all of this is the Jews' fault. I'll notify my hindquarters to blame them instead of a pervert hiding "church".......

The Catholic Church needs to be aggressive about this problem. They need to cull the priesthood of child molesters immediately. Failure to do so only continues the abuse and makes the church look like it doesn't really care. The temple needs to be cleaned and the abusers purged.

While am glad this is being uncovered, I am sure the hand of the MOSSAD is behind this.

The Israelis and the Catholic church have been in a 'civilized' war for many political and financial reasons in the last years.

This is the way the Israelis are working. They did the same here in NYC where the orthodox Jews, who have supported the Palestinians, have been barraged with cases of child abuse, cases that have NEVER before been charged against these Jews but started right after Israelis warned the Orthodox Jews that continued support to the Palestinians would have consequences for them.

Again, while I don't doubt that they too, the orthodox jews, are engaged in child abuse, these accusations are now the favorite and most effective tool of the Israelis against any organization or group that stands in the Israelis way.

The Church better do something before all that's left of it is some old ladies and a bunch of homosexuals and pedophiles.

Every now and then a bit of truth comes through in this thread's reactions, like who the real head of the Catholic Church is and what infallibility means, and the wisdom of statutes of limitation.

But mostly it's yada,yada, that bad pope!, more yada, yada.

Most dishonest are those who separate themselves from Christ and HIS Church because human beings disappointed them. That they are justified in setting boundaries between themselves and the wrongdoers is imperative. But why separate from the Body of Christ?

A priest molested me when I was 15. I reported him; he died several months later. His bishop died not too long after that. My beef was with them, not my Church. Was I OK after that?--no, of course not; any abused kid winds up with life-long problems. Should I have sued the people in the pews for money--they after all who *are* the Church---whose donations support the Church? Why? It wasn't their fault,was it? Should I deprive the charities the Church supports of the funds they desparately needed?

Nope not me. In the end, I prefer to hear the promised "come blessed of my Father..."

Am I the only one who sees it this way?

PART I

The RCC whose priests consider the Catholics "God's people," whose medieval relics say this on television, in the media, and probably to themselves in the bathroom is an international pedophile ring. The pedophile gang is protected both from within and without, the latter by DAs who don't prosecute and by police.

When pedophiles leave the priesthood, they are set loose in the communities. Priest pedophiles have not above raping nonCatholic children.

The RCC is morally bankrupt and yet not only escapes prosecution but influences United States legislation, has legislation passed to serve its interests, tantamount to Establishment.

In a recent Apellate Court decision, the RCC was deemed a FOREIGN NATION and, therefore, immune to lawsuits by Americans.

What was the gist of the suit? The suit was brought by the victims of 200 Nazi Franciscan priests (Utashe), who owned and operated concentration camps during WWII. These Nazi Franciscan priests cut living people up with scissors and watched them bleed to death, impaled them and watched them drown.

The Nazi Franciscans then deposited what the victims (Serbian Orthodox, Jews, Roma) had in Vatican Bank. Vatican Bank was established by Pius XII as a repository for nazi loot.

The suit against the Franciscan Order continues.

At the same time, incomprehensibly and illegally, that the US deems the the RCC a foreign nation and thereby immune to lawsuits, the RCC enjoys nonprofit status in the United States.

The RCC and its shills in Congress are in violation of Rico. It also has its shills in the media, and notwithstanding this column, EJ Dionne is one of them. EJ Dionne praised Senator Ben Nelson's efforts to deprive poor women and their families of choice under the Health Care bill. When Sen. Ben Nelson then took a bribe (an earmark) in exchange for a mild concession, EJ Dionne praised Nelson for his bribe, as being, by some twisted logic, "reformist."

Of course, the "reformist" bribe was universally hated, and when Dionne made the belated discovery, he again praised Vatican Ben Nelson, for wanting the bribe out.

Abroad, the RCC is being investigated by the Italian Justice Department for laundering 200,000,000 mafia dollars. That would be the mafia that murders elected Italian officials who attempt to stem the tide of organized crime that has over-run Italy.

The RCC has had nothing thus far to say on this, except to blame the Christian Orthodox for instigation this investigation.

This has not been reported in RCC WaPo.

Solution: The Congress must be purged of its Vatican shills.

The "bishops" et al must be prohibited from lobbying in Congress. Ditto all other religious institutions. Separate church and state.

The resignations of DAs who have failed to prosecute pedophile priests should be demanded. Ditto, those of police who haven't investigated.

The RCC is either a FOREIGN nation or a CIVIL institution. NOT Both.
PART II

If the latter, the Apellate Court decision protecting it from lawsuits must be overturned.

If the former, it must lose its nonprofit status immediately.

Either way, prosecutions on a variety of fronts for a variety of crimes too numerous to list here are long, long overdue.

AN OPEN INVITATION:

A new blog tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

Colorado dog!

Do you think AIPAC and John Hagee are representative of the Jews? I hope you are aware how anti-semitic that assumption is!

And yes, Pope Benedict has a habit of speaking truth to power! As I listed in my previous posting. He has other "crimes" too: for one thing, he is well-versed in theology/philosophy/classical cultures, and he has made attempts to reclaim the position of the Catholic Church in the cultural/intellectual sphere. This is a major threat to the monopoly of (mostly closet-marxist) academics in the Western World.

These factors can not be neglected in understanding the cause of this media-scandal (which started, of course, in the New York Times, not exactly a beacon of objective reporting, in particular regarding the Church, Catholicism, and Catholics in general).

Alphysicist! John Hagee's antisemitism, anti-Catholicism, and anti-Islamic are deplorable. They pale before two thousand years of imperialism, the spreading of antisemitic violence that continues to this day, notably in your post, Jew killing, child rape, personal torture, eg., the 200 Franciscan monks, money laundering, interference in the affairs of other nations.

To the best of my knowledge, AIPAC is guilty of none of the above, has nothing to do with Hagee, and is in no way in a class with Pope PAC. Everything that follows, I can document.

Funny, how you VaticaNazis have antisemitism in the blood. Seems to go along with a few other things, equally vicious.

If you don't like American laws, go live in the Vatican.

The RCC whose priests consider the Catholics "God's people," whose medieval relics say this on television, in the media, and probably to themselves in the bathroom is an international pedophile ring. The pedophile gang is protected both from within and without, the latter by DAs who don't prosecute and by police.

When pedophiles leave the priesthood, they are set loose in the communities. Priest pedophiles have not above raping nonCatholic children.

The RCC is morally bankrupt and yet not only escapes prosecution but influences United States legislation, has legislation passed to serve its interests, tantamount to Establishment.

In a recent Apellate Court decision, the RCC was deemed a FOREIGN NATION and, therefore, immune to lawsuits by Americans.

What was the gist of the suit? The suit was brought by the victims of 200 Nazi Franciscan priests (Utashe), who owned and operated concentration camps during WWII. These Nazi Franciscan priests cut living people up with scissors and watched them bleed to death, impaled them and watched them drown.

The Nazi Franciscans then deposited what the victims (Serbian Orthodox, Jews, Roma) had in Vatican Bank. Vatican Bank was established by Pius XII as a repository for nazi loot.

The suit against the Franciscan Order continues.

Continued:

At the same time, incomprehensibly and illegally, that the US deems the the RCC a foreign nation and thereby immune to lawsuits, the RCC enjoys nonprofit status in the United States.

The RCC and its shills in Congress are in violation of Rico. It also has its shills in the media, and notwithstanding this column, EJ Dionne is one of them. EJ Dionne praised Senator Ben Nelson's efforts to deprive poor women and their families of choice under the Health Care bill. When Sen. Ben Nelson then took a bribe (an earmark) in exchange for a mild concession, EJ Dionne praised Nelson for his bribe, as being, by some twisted logic, "reformist."

Of course, the "reformist" bribe was universally hated, and when Dionne made the belated discovery, he again praised Vatican Ben Nelson, for wanting the bribe out.

Abroad, the RCC is being investigated by the Italian Justice Department for laundering 200,000,000 mafia dollars. That would be the mafia that murders elected Italian officials who attempt to stem the tide of organized crime that has over-run Italy.

The RCC has had nothing thus far to say on this, except to blame the Christian Orthodox for instigation this investigation.

This has not been reported in RCC WaPo.

Solution: The Congress must be purged of its Vatican shills.

Continued:

The "bishops" et al must be prohibited from lobbying in Congress. Ditto all other religious institutions. Separate church and state.

The resignations of DAs who have failed to prosecute pedophile priests should be demanded. Ditto, those of police who haven't investigated.

The RCC is either a FOREIGN nation or a CIVIL institution. NOT Both.
PART II

If the latter, the Apellate Court decision protecting it from lawsuits must be overturned.

If the former, it must lose its nonprofit status immediately.

Either way, prosecutions on a variety of fronts for a variety of crimes too numerous to list here are long, long overdue.

Farnazmansouri,

I think some of your argumets are a bit suspicious: the CC is responsible for two thousand years of imperialism? The CC did lend inspiration for conquering the Holy Land in medieval times, but worldly powers did not protest too much against the idea. Moreover, state and church have been separate for the last 100-150 years in much of the Western World, and imperialism seems to be alive and well, perhaps even more common and more brutal than in the Middle Ages. Actually, the Holy Land is occupied as we speak, and interestingly, the CC has nothing to do with that, although certain christians, like Hagee are very enthusiastic.

Your accusations of anti-semitism are a bit off the mark too. The word anti-semitism is only about 150 years old, it was coined around the same time as the invention of Jews as a nation (as opposed to a religious abstract concept), by nineteenth century romantics hanging around coffee houses in central Europe (like Theodor Herzl, for example). It was quite fashionable to invent nations back then, however the late-comers to the nation game also had to invent histories of persecution by the more mainstream cultures, to compensate possible complexes of inferiority, that would originate from not being mainstream. Their, most often to a large extent newly invented, identities found support in the framework of the divide et impera politics of the victorious allies that dominated the Versailles Peace Treaty.

Your posting regarding the Ustashas, where you seek to tie the CC to the Ustashas, gives the impression of a good old-fashioned Serbian nationalist (like Gavrilo Princep). I think the crimes of the Ustashas are well-documented, they have been discussed extensively by the mainstream media, rightfully so. What lacks up to this day, is an objective discussion of what followed in Yugoslavia, when the Yugoslav Partisans exterminated Italians in Istria (Foibe massacres), Germans and Hungarians in the Backa.

And your claim about too much Vatican influence in the US government branches is ludicrous. Can you even name an influential lobby group for the Vatican which wields comparable power to, for example, AIPAC? Or even the strawberry lobby?

Alphysicist

Can you even name an influential lobby group for the Vatican which wields comparable power to, for example, AIPAC? Or even the strawberry lobby?

The bishops of the United States of America, who have not registered as lobbyists, as well as the Vatican; hence we have Vatican Stupak, Vatican Ben Nelson, et al, who have effectively shaped the ourrent health care bill to suit the Bishops, who actually, with no shame, feel entitled to legislate in the United States.

True to Roman Catholic form you blame the Serbian Orthodox, who, along with Jews, and Roma suffered inconceivable agony at the hands of 200 Nazi Franciscan priests. These Nazi Franciscans deposited what they stole from the victims in Vatican Bank which had been established as a repository for Nazi loot, established by Pius XII.

A few weeks ago, an Appellate Court ruled against the Jewish, Serbian, and Roma plaintiffs, denying them the right to sue the Vatican for what the Vatican stole, since the Vatican is a "FOREIGN NATION."

This was far from "well publicized." In fact, most Catholics are clueless about the Nazi Franciscans and the Vatican's theft.

HOWEVER, say the word and I will post the name of every single one of them. I have done so before.

Maybe, I'll do it anyway. I'll probably also post the names of current self-identified Fascist and Nazi priests.
-------------
Meanwhile, thanks to the Catholic media, we read nothing of the Italian investigation of Vatican Bank for laundering 200,000,000 mafia dollars.

Just like Aphysicist, the miserable RCC blames the SErbian Orthodox. Sick Vatican Nation.

In the interim, I'm trying to understand the shock at the pedophile cover-up. Fact is, the Vatican Nation has never released its HOLOCAUST archives (they haven't filed them yet--LOL!).

Everyday Vatican Racist Pedophile Nation receives the benefits of a foreign country and is tax exempt. Also exempt from prosecution.

Gotta stop. And it will. Soon. If I were you, Phys, I'd call Ratzo. Word has it that the UN will be petitioned to demand that Vatican nation release its HOlocaust Era archives.

Meanwhile if you don't like US law, move to the Vatican, that is, if it's still standing once the Italian Justice Department is through with it.