Who stole Mojave cross?

It was probably a tour company wanting to increase visits to the area by keeping the cross in the news. And exactly why the fuss anyway? There are probably over a million crosses in the USA alone fulfilling the symbolic meaning that anyone wants to put upon it.

Atheists and agnostics needed the metal to work up a circle slash and a question mark to honor those kinds of veterans that served in WWII.

The simple fact is that the land transfer did not solve the problem. There are many, many Jewish war veterans in New York City, California, and elsewhere. Should we place a (nonsectarian or sectarian) Star of David in Central Park? It's a big park.

How about a crescent at Yellowstone?

Problems? The government can arrange land transfers.

When Courts rule, they set precedent, do they not? When the Court heard the Simmons case, it set precedent, ending the death penalty for minors.

So, maybe a blue and white Star of David in Central Park.

Given recent events, it should probably be under twenty-four-hour guard.

"Who stole Mojave Cross?"

Who cares? Put up another one. There have always been crimes like vandalism and theft... and we clean up, replace, and move on without giving the criminals undue attention.

I wish they'd just designated a large enough area for as many 'desert chapels' as needed to be part of land owned by the military but administered by the park service. Sure, it's a different solution, but it's a lot less troublesome one too.

I'm not a Christian, but I'm awful sorry to hear someone stole the thing.

It's never good when something that starts off being there to provide comfort to others turns into a cause for conflict.

In a category labeled "On Faith" and "Under God," was it really necessary to include the cutesy line, "Maybe Jesus took the cross"?

And it is really unclear how there was government "interference" on what was, and essentially is, government land. Sounds like "keep your government hands off my Medicare."

This article carries much more information on the biases of the writer than thoughtful discussion of the topic covered. Mr. Waters surely would prefer to write about something else; perhaps his editors should ask him if he really likes the "Under God" beat, and provide him with another one.

pagans, with the chief pagan obama made sure the cross, a sign of salvation would be gone...
a sign of the times...
is it me or is this "on faith" section so "kill the faith"...

Athiests hate God.
Athiests hate Law.

How sad and pathetic to live in hate as an athiest.

It is troublesome that some feel it is necessary to control everything. A cross, out in the middle of nowhere, and yet it irritates some so much that they go to great measures to remove it. Then they show the cowards that they are by hiding. If they are so secure in their beliefs why not stand up and say "I did it". Never. The people who took the cross are cowards.

pagans, with the chief pagan obama made sure the cross, a sign of salvation would be gone...
a sign of the times...
is it me or is this "on faith" section so "kill the faith"...

Posted by: DwightCollins

------------------------

Where's your evidence? Maybe "Christians" stole it so they could blame it on the pagans.

a sign of the times....
Palin's evangelicals and Donohue's Catholics judging and convicting others without due process...

Maybe Mormons took it. They don't like crosses either. They made Luther Heights Bible Camp in Idaho take a whitewashed rock one off a mountain side but nobody demonized them as pagans, atheists, godless Communists, liberals or bed-wetters.

"Athiests hate God.
Athiests hate Law."

But atheists can spell.

And I'm betting I know more atheists and agnostics than you do.

I don't know any that 'hate law'. And I don't know many that 'hate God'. By definition they question the existence of God. So how can you hate something you don't think exists?

I'd be much cooler with the cross at that location if the other religious groups that applied for equal space weren't turned down as they were.

I am a veteran and an atheist. I believe in the Constitution and the separation of church and state. It protects you and your faith from government control. If your religious beliefs are grand enough, you won't need the government to shove them down peoples' throats.

It was the Supreme Court that stole the Cross. They watered down its significance by declaring that a Cross is something other than a pure symbol of Christian faith. This decision degrades the value of of the Cross, reducing it to a secular symbol representing pretty much anything (in this case it represents American WWI dead). The court dodged the establishment clause by robbing the Cross of its religious distinction. The subsequent theft of the physical Cross is insignificant by comparison.

It was an angry liberal who took it.

"Maybe Jesus took the cross."

Well, that is a fine glib response, but the cross was most likely taken by intolerant liberals.

"But atheists can spell."

Well, some of them can and based on the comments that appear on this blog, some of them can't.

"....but nobody demonized them as pagans, atheists, godless Communists, liberals or bed-wetters."

Well, yes because Mormons by definition atheists or godless. Few of them are liberals or Communists, although I can't speak to the bed-wetting.

They are not called those things because they are not those things. They also aren't called extraterrestrials or fish.

The cross is not a war memorial; it is a religious artifact.

And because it is languishing, lonely in the heat of the desert--public land, mind you--how can you claim ownership, and sue whomever rescued it from the corrosive elements?

Warning enough to anyone possessed to spend good money, time and effort to foist their totemism and phallic regalia on the public: please expect others to covet the item's magical seduction. And, even to possess themselves of it. You lost claim to the totem when you placed it in the public domain.

I see a lot of passionate accusations about angry atheists and angry liberals on this thread. Reading the comments, though, it doesn't seem to me like it is atheists or liberals who are angry. After all, what do they have to be angry about? The Cross has been secularized by the Supreme Court. The land it is (was) on has been privatized - a kowtow to the establishment clause. The Court's decision clearly establishes the continuing principle that religious symbols are inappropriate on public land. This decision was a landslide victory for liberals, atheists, and Americans who support the principles laid down by the founding fathers in the Constitution. Now, the cross is gone anyway, and conservative Christians are irritated. Can anyone say "cherry on top?"

Look, if somebody can just go up to a National Park and build something on public land without permission, why can't somebody else just go up there and take it down without permission?

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

Atheists don't hate God; they may hate the notion of God, but how can they hate something that to them is fiction? Also, why does it follow that if they hate the thought of people clinging to an ancient superstition they hate the law? On the contrary, atheists revere the law because that is all that keeps them from being persecuted by the fanatically religious. If you study the matter, religious zealots, as with all extremists, only respect law that is in agreement with their dogmatic beliefs. Further study will reveal that our law, as with all secular societies, does not enact moral or religious codes.

Atheists and unbelievers will fade away but the cross symbolized by Jesus Christ won't. They can steal it but it would be rebuilt bigger and much more glorious.

Pity the man who stole it. You can almost be sure that the man will spend his eternity in hellfire.

That's the difference between man and animal. Man can do many stupid things.

Well there is this movie the exorcist...

She needed a bigger toy

I suggest that along with the cross to be rebuilt is a plaque that inscribed verses in the Bible like the folowing :

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
for he has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,
that the blind will see,
that the oppressed will be set free,
and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come"

Thank you Lord Jesus.

some selfish,no moral,disrespectful jerks stole it, that's who.

I don't think the cross was stolen, rather it was liberated. Liberated, that is, from its unconstitutional government endorsement and establishment.

I just love christians! The Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants, Baptists, Methodists and the other sects cannot ever fully agree with each other on what the absolute "truth" is regarding their religion, yet they can never resist slamming any non-Christians when given the opportunity.

Another good verse inscribed to a plaque with the restoration of the cross :

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

All other ways are towards the eternal fire. Pity the man who stole the cross. It's almost 100 percent sure that the man will fry in the afterlife.

There is no "promordial soup". He has put his bet on a non-existing fairy tale.

David Waters wrote "Maybe Jesus took the cross"?

This is a blaspemous statement. Who knows David will be spending his eternity with the man who stole the cross? Maybe that's a more realistic question.

It just shows the religiousity of Methodists. They are just wasting their time going to church. David Waters claims to be a methodist,

Seems like any real devout Christian would be very upset and roundly offended if the government proclaimed the symbol of Christ's death and resurrection not to be a religious symbol but rather just another secular symbol with broad meaning across traditional religious boundaries.

Strangely enough, many Christians are cheering Justice Kennedy just as they cheered when Justice Scalia proclaimed that the word "God" was not religious either. Your own heroes are secularizing your central religious beliefs and you cheer them on? Very strange indeed.

Eternity in hellfire all because some stupid brains put their bet on something called "primordial soup".

Modern science teaches that DNA which is the blueprint of any life-form does not resemble any kind of soup.

Billions of repeating base-pairs set in proper order and yet if you misplace one, the engine won't start.

What soup are they talking about? A soup that will send them to hell -- the stupidity soup.

Wow, lotta nutjobs out today. How ya doin', nutjobs?

Whoever stole the cross, they have my thanks for their humorous - though definitely illegal - act.

The SCOTUS decision was narrowly worded, thank goodness, but it was still dead wrong. Dominionists and other Jebus freaks are going to be testing how far they can push that decision for a while. So I'm glad they got a little smack to start things off.

Look, if somebody can just go up to a National Park and build something on public land without permission, why can't somebody else just go up there and take it down without permission?
Sounds perfectly fair to me.
Posted by: Freestinker | May 12, 2010

The cross was in place long before the site was park of the National Park Service, long before pc madness took over this country.

Another good verse inscribed to a plaque along with the restored cross :

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Valid only while we are alive. If you find yourself waking up in hell, that's it. No bible verse can save you from the pit of fire.

The grace of God is not endless. And His wrath is extreme. Pity the man who stole the cross and those who cheer him.

In the words of Christ to Judas : "it would have been better if he were not born"

Truly, truly sad. Sometimes those words make me think that all liberals and atheists should have been aborted at their mother's womb rather than let live and then burn for eternity.

..."FIND IT....NOW! As a Christian, Voter/Vet USAF, Graduate Student, Masters Program, Professional Studies, East Tennessee State University/Class/2010, MEANS ALOT TO American's to put this back why else would we be going to court if it wasn't important and why else would you be reading all these comments if it weren't important to the Majority, who want it back, and want it back now!

..."Let Your Hope Make You Glad. "Be Patient in Times of Trouble, "AND NEVER STOP PRAYING." ---Romans 12:12

..."One more thing folks, Pray for the eight year old lad who survived the Libyan Air, Crash, he's important to the future and Prayer to the LIVING GOD is the only thing that will save him....

...Hurry...

..."Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee; "GREAT AND MIGHTY THINGS."
---Jeremiah 33:3

If I'd be rich and can afford it, I'd like to build another cross on the same site but with additional high tech lights to project a hologram above the cross that can be read kilometers away. It will show all my favorite verses in the Bible like the following :

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

for he has anointed me to bring Good News

to the poor.

He has sent me to proclaim that captives

will be released,

that the blind will see,

that the oppressed will be set free,

and that the time of the Lord’s favor has

come "

Thank You Lord Jesus.

By God's grace, I think that is possible.

Truly, truly sad. Sometimes those words make me think that all liberals and atheists should have been aborted at their mother's womb rather than let live and then burn for eternity.
Posted by: spidermean2 | May 12, 2010 10:47 AM

Don't you just love Christians like this??

Gandhi was right; Christians are so UNLIKE christ.

je121819 wrote:
"The cross was in place long before the site was park of the National Park Service, long before pc madness took over this country."

========

je121819,

The land in question was always public land long before the cross was erected, and long after the establishment clause was adopted by our Constitution. So what's your point?

And if religious liberty is now PC madness, well that's ok by me.

It was a clothesline pole; get over it.

Spelling corrected. Facts remain the same.

Atheists hate God.

Atheists hate Law.

How sad and pathetic to live in hate as an athiest.

Many atheists base their faith on the belief that life started from so called "primordial soup". 80 years have passed and the soup theory is being debunked by other evolutionists. This new theory (hydrothermal vent) will be proven wrong again by other evolutionists years (or months) from now, for sure. It never misses.

On the other hand, the Bible proves itself to be truer everyday as we see more people behaving like fools and on their way towards what the scripture calls Doomsday.

Stupidity is not harmless. It may send a person to eternal damnation.

David Waters,

Your "Maybe Jesus stole the cross" is an unecessary and crass sentence in an otherwise useful article. What do you think this sentence adds to the article?

"why else would you be reading all these comments if it weren't important to the Majority" -ztc...

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to point out that the court should have ruled as it did--not because the cross isn't a religious symbol, but because it is a symbol of the majority of people and their ability to rule over everyone else. That is what democracy is all about--the majority get their way. Everyone else can get in line or drop dead because a majority of the SCOTUS said so.

Very Intelligent Design

The DNA is a strand of billions of base pairs. Part of it's function is to replicate itself. It's like a very minute printer printing itself in 3D form. No human printer is close to achieving such a feat.

Do the evolutionist idiots understand this? And yet these idiots claim that there is no Intelligent Design in all of these processes.

Idiots can't discern intelligence. Atheists are idiots and can't detect what is intelligence.

"Primordial Soup"? Maybe their brains think like a soup. Malfunctioning soup brain.

Being idiots, any atheist petition concerning the First Ammendment should be thrown to the waste basket.

Idiocy has no rights.

"pagans, with the chief pagan obama made sure the cross, a sign of salvation would be gone...
a sign of the times...
is it me or is this "on faith" section so "kill the faith"...
Posted by: DwightCollins | May 12, 2010 6:13 AM"

How dare you, sir? How dare you!

(wiccan takes a white glove and slaps Collins' face)

Name your seconds!

Any pagan on this sweet earth would have too much honor to deface someone else's religious symbol. However, some Christians, (thank the Divine ONLY some Christians), have no problems killing or harming pagans, vandalizing their homes and cars, killing their pets, and tormenting their children.

Besides, "Late last month, the Supreme Court, in a case argued by U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan, blocked the removal of the congressionally endorsed war memorial cross, saying separation of church and state "does not require eradication of all religious symbols in the public realm." Obama's administration argued FOR keeping the cross on this land.

Twit.

I believe in a black-letter separation of Church and State. As such, I think religious symbols have no place on public lands. However, I was perfectly happy with the land transfer solution. Put the land in private hands, build a nice little split-rail fence around it (this being in the West), and at the gate put a tiny plaque:

"In 2010, the plot of land this memorial sits on was given into private hands so as not to violate the First Amendment of the US Constitution."

Everybody goes home happy.

But that was not good enough for a Supreme Court that, despite all the crying about judicial activism, is most certainly pushing an agenda.

Have the local police check the whereabouts of the plaintiff in the Federal case, Frank Buono?

The cross had been in the park since in was erected by the Veterans of Foreign Wars in 1934.

Around 2000, Frank Buono, a retired U.S. Park Service employee, filed suit in Federal District Court in California, claiming that a cross on federal land violated the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

What were Mr. Buono's motivations in filing and litigating the case? How much money, out of his own pocket, did he spend only to lose this case after 10 years of litigation.

"I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)"

If you want a memorial for fallen soldiers, why not erect a tablet with the Constitution of the United States on it? That's what they died fighting for.

'Atheists and agnostics needed the metal to work up a circle slash and a question mark to honor those kinds of veterans that served in WWII.'
_____________

One wonders what the Axis powers used in their cemeteries after WWII....we could presume something like the swastika, for example.

Except as a symbol it clearly had held a different meaning for the Japanese Buddhists compared to the German nazis, who co-opted this ancient sigil for their own use. The cross and the swastika are equally considered magical symbols.

http://www.crystalinks.com/swastika.html

Apparently the mysterious theft has been solved, because some moronic WaPo online copy editor wrote a dumb home page headline suggesting the Supreme Court (which upheld the placement of the cross) might have stolen it: "On Faith: Who stole the cross? Thief or court?"

That's over the line, and especially stupid considering how the court ruled.

It seems like the Supreme Court is reinforcing the notion that Americans can circumvent any law by looking for the right loophole. Forget about the original intent. It's more like a child's view of the law. If dad doesn't agree, there is always mom.

I think the lawsuit should have been dismissed way back in the beginning stages as being "frivolous".

Anybody who wastes their time and money pursuing the removal of a cross out in the middle of the desert has got to be nuts.

Look for the idiot who paid legal fees to have the cross removed.

That's probably the same idiot who stole it, motivated because he knew he lost the lawsuit, his money, and even the land.

Sounds like we need to put up a plaque to Frank Buono.

Truly, truly sad. Sometimes those words make me think that all liberals and atheists should have been aborted at their mother's womb rather than let live and then burn for eternity.
Posted by: spidermean2 | May 12, 2010 10:47 AM
Don't you just love Christians like this??
Posted by: obx2004 | May 12, 2010 11:00 AM

Yes. I was raised a Roman Catholic and heard this type of hate speech all the time. I became more human only after leaving that cult.

Oh please. Some idiots stole the bronze M16 and helmet that was art of a Veterans Memorial here. There was no political overtone. Just some jerks who wanted a bronze M16.

The same family of jerks stole the cross. Nothing more.

...and PS, the VFW could better use their $25 grand to help vets instead of putting cross out in the wilderness.

Oooh, I know! It was illegal immigrants!

The cross is not the problem. Government promotion of Christianity is the problem.

Well, if you are looking to speculate on who took it, who is seeking to gain political power and influence by convincing Christians that there's some kind of threat to them from 'Pagans and atheists' and other 'people-not-like-them?'

People who want separation of church and state do not benefit from this action in any way.

But I can think of who does.

Those who are trying to stir resentment and sell us a 'war.'

Has anyone checked with BlueCross BlueShield?

Wiccan, you said what I wanted to, and much more eloquently than I was thinking it.

On antoher subject entirely, email me at lepidopteryx@yahoo.com when you get a chance.

Athiests hate God. - Impossible, they might hate religion, but since they do not believe God exists, they are unlikely to hate God. BTW I know lots of Atheists, who are liberal, conservative and everything in between. None of them hate religion, they mostly just laugh at it.

Athiests hate Law - Yeah, that is why they are always using the courts for things, because they hate the law. If these religious and Atheist groups opposed to this symbol did not revere the law they would be very, very unlikely to care about a meaningless (to them) symbol in the middle of a desert.

I don't condone thievery or desecration of any religious symbol, but the court was asking for this with a ruling that promoted Christianity over other religions. A better ruling would have been to rmove the cross or erect a monument to those of every religion -- and yes, tothose of no religion -- who gave their lives for the country.

Idiots can't discern intelligence. Atheists are idiots and can't detect what is intelligence.
"Primordial Soup"? Maybe their brains think like a soup. Malfunctioning soup brain.
Posted by: spidermean2 | May 12, 2010 12:10 PM

Oh, yeah, baby, there's that Christian love again! Idiots, stupidity, etc, all words he uses to describe those who don't agree with his ideologies. Wow, and that specious argument that people who behave like fools authenticates the Bible's as truth - my head is spinning. This is entertaining to say the least.

I would look on E-Bay for the cross, I bet the motives were either.
1. Profit - hence e bay
2. Teen aged rebellion.

Paganplace, please email me when you get a chance - it's important.

There are probably over a million crosses in the USA alone fulfilling the symbolic meaning that anyone wants to put upon it i.e. one cross will not be missed!!!

Atheists being idiots is a scientific fact. It's not a hate speech.

Many people abandoned their faith because they believe on the Primordial Soup Theory. Now it's being debunked by evolutionists themselves.

How would they tell that to those atheists who died already believing that there is such a soup and and bet heavily on that fairy tale?

How can they pull them out of the fire?

Spidermean2(well-named!):
There are no atheists - or theists - "in the fire" because there's no fire after death except possibly cremation. Grow up, give up the things of a child, and live without fear. Really, it's healthier, and your version of god will love you for it.

I heard on the radio this morning that the cross was stolen by a Veteran. I guess he isn't done fighting for freedom. Way to go dude! And thank you for your continued service to our great nation.