Holy gangsters

Like France outlawed burqas for security reasons, the US now apparently needs to outlaw rosaries for the same.

"Like France outlawed burqas for security reasons, the US now apparently needs to outlaw rosaries for the same."

Not the same.

Religious symbols like rosaries are not the same as clothing. A rosary, cross, star of David, etc., can all be worn under clothing or carried unobtrusively. When the wearers (or carriers) overtly display them, there's usually something else going on.

Any school banning such items is actually banning their display, not their wearing or use. So no one's religious freedom is being compromised unless you believe that the display of religious symbols is more important than understanding their symbolic value.

David Waters,

You have opened the door far too wide with this one, but, for now, I shall leave it to someone else to cross the threshold.

Who *wears* a rosary, anyway?

If you see someone wearing a rosary (as opposed to respectfully carrying it), that's just like seeing someone wearing an American flag as a cape: a sure sign that, whatever message they're trying to send, you can be sure it isn't one of respect for the symbol they're improperly using as an article of clothing.

every morning I walk to church and pray the rosary...
am I now to be stopped every morning because I won't stop...

DwightCollins wrote:
every morning I walk to church and pray the rosary...
am I now to be stopped every morning because I won't stop...
************
Are you really so ignorant and obtuse that you don't understand the context of the issue? Wait...I've read your previous postings so that's really just a rhetorical question.

Oops. When I read the headline on page one, "Rosaries are gang signs", I automatically assumed the gang being referenced was the Catholic church.

I see the article is talking about different gangs of thugs.

My bad.

As a Catholic, we were told not to wear the rosary but to use the rosary to pray.

It was understood that to wear the rosary was sacrilegious and should not be used as an ornament/jewelry on your body.

Catholics have always kept them in their pockets, purse or box, etc.

As far as that student who was wearing it as a remembrance to his dead relative, his intentions are good but maybe a chain with a crucifix would be more appropriate and would satisfy the school guidelines.

These days, I guess the roasry is something of a cult symbol, somewhat similar to NAMBLA's.

we need to re-evaluate how we deal with violent crime....attempt to re-habilitate the young(under 17)...but adult offenders need to be dealt with in a manner that is closer to being exiled to Siberia in a private cell with no frills as opposed to the setting of today's jails...if you are violent and dangerous,,,you just brought a one way ticket to hell...your comfort is not our problem...keeping you away from society is.

Only the sisters wear rosaries. I've never even seen a priest wearing a rosary. No practicing Catholic would think it was appropriate to wear your rosary beads.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men."

Janet8 is correct, although I did not think it was sacriligious to wear them, just not done because they were not supposed to be jewelry but a tool to help people keep track of their place while reciting the Rosary. I don't see anything wrong with someone who is mourning wearing their Rosary, however, it should be fairly easy to spot someone who is wearing one for a good reason vs. the gangbangers. The gangbangers sound like they "bling" their rosaries up, while most of the Rosaries I have seen people use in Church and sold in Catholic stores are simple (rarely more than one color, size is what typically determines the change from one Rosary set to another).

Perhaps in areas where this is a problem the local Catholic Priests can both impress on the congregation the proper use of a Rosary and handout simple Rosaries for the congregations use and educate the Police, school officials and whoever else about the proper use of a Rosary and how to spot someone who is not using one for religious purposes.

The concern expressed by school officials about the presence of rosaries is very much akin to the same school officials thoughts that teachers cannot be trusted to differentiate between ecstasy or crystal meth pills and Mydol.

Maybe some retraining is needed in the ranks of the educational establishment ~ at least to the degree necessary that the members can protect themselves from their own home medicine cabinets.

Apparently the Schenectady school principal knew what he/she was doing. I can only hope that before the student's suspension, the school discussed or informed the parents of the documented use of rosaries by gangs. I was raised Catholic and was taught to use, but not wear, rosaries, but knowing of the gangs' inappropiate use, I would explain to my child the potential misinterpretation and offer a better alternative for expression. The gangs, not the schools, are the bad guys here.

Please, does anyone think that banning rosaries in schools will stop gang members from using identifiers? Next it will be crosses, or tattoos, or hairstyles, or belts of different colors.

There's a huge gang problem but banning religious symbols isn't the answer.

I work with gang members in a public school system in Virginia. They are very open with me regarding the purpose of their rosaries. The rosaries are specifically displayed for gang purposes, and the kids have some sense of how they might complicate efforts on the part of the school system to undermine the efforts of students to fly gang colors. However, most of the kids are also aware of the importance of the rosary as a religious symbol, and that is part of their decision to wear it, too. I am certain that they don't properly understand the meaning of the rosary in catholic practice, but that doesn't really mean that it isn't a religious symbol to them. Many also have tatoos that are Catholic in origin that are reflective of their personal identification with the Church and with the culture of their home country.

These aren't the brightest kids, and their use of religious imagery in the context of gang symbolism is unfortunate, but I believe that there is a religious context in their display that ought to be protected by the first amendment - even in the schools.

Also, I want to give a nod of approval to the person who suggested that eliminating the symbolism of gangs from the schools is an impossible task. You can get rid of one symbol, but there will always be another. Better to try to combat the circumstances that lead to the rise of gangs than to wear ourselves out in fruitless efforts to combat plastic necklaces serving dual purposes.

A "gang" isn't bad in and of itself. Afterall, a patrol of Boy Scouts is a gang. However, I'm sure that when people hear the word "gang" they are thinking in the context of a criminal gang, and not a group of altruistic do-gooders.

Where to gang members come from? How about families that didn't have access to afordable abortion services? Single parent families, or 2 parent families that neither parent had time to spend with their kids because they were working 2 or 3 jobs each to make ends meet? How about kids who drop out of school because their teachers are unable to instill a joy of learning in them, or an economy with over 10% unemployed and no prospects for young men or women. How about a drug trade that looks like a guarranteed easy way to make lots of money with low risk?

haveaheart said: "So no one's religious freedom is being compromised unless you believe that the display of religious symbols is more important than understanding their symbolic value."
That's a ludicrous statement. Persons of faith should be able to wear religious symbols as overtly as they please or more importantly...as overtly as their convictions drive them. Some people feel it's important that their faith be visible to others - i.e. that others know that they belong to a particular faith, and so they wear visible symbols. Despite the misguided efforts of some liberals, we are free to embrace our faith, even the parts that are visible to the public. This does not infringe upon rights of others. Everyone is free to ignore those displays and/or practice a different faith. Yet liberals in this country keep trying to tell us differently. Apparently just the idea that others around them openly believe in God is enough to make them shudder. That's too bad...but no matter how uncomfortable they may feel; they are on the wrong side of the Constitution and a free society.

The rosary is simply a piece of costume jewelry used in a ritual designed to induce a trance-like state so that the subject is pliable and open to suggestion. It is one of the many tools that the Church uses to exercise authority and control over its brainwashed minions.

DwightCollins,

"every morning I walk to church and pray the rosary...
am I now to be stopped every morning because I won't stop..."

Perhaps you should switch from you current god (I'll bet he's on AT&T, right?) to a god that subscribes to Verizen Wireless; you might get better reception at home.

Rosaries have always represented a gang-like organization.

Jesus himself said, "No one comes to the Father except through me.

The last time Jesus' mother, Mary is mentioned in the New Testament is when she is with the (120) disciples on the various occasions when they meet in the Upper Room after Jesus the Christ ascends to heaven.

While she is only mentioned once in Acts 1:14, one can assume that she is also present with her other sons in the Upper Room on the Day of Pentecost when all of the 120 are filled with the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit's baptism.

The Roman Catholic Church has a lot of traditions and doctrines which are never mentioned in any Bible based on the 397 AD Bible canonized by the Orthodox Church and accepted by most Believers in Christ Jesus.

It is also stated in the New Testament that Believers in Jesus who belong to The Way (the real name of the Early Church) are supposed to obey the laws as long as they don't interfere with one's relationship with the Lord. Since there is nothing about a rosary in the authorized versions of the Bible used by the Roman Catholic Church, children, no matter what age, should be wearing them in a public school setting.

One should not wear his or her religion on the outside. If one is a Holy Spirit-baptized Believer in Christ Jesus, others will know that by the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of him or her.

I don't use the pagan created epithet "Christian" to indentify my relationship with Jesus. I prefer to be like the early church members and just say I am a Believer like they did. Even Paul called the early church "The Way."

If a person calls me a "Christian," I am supposed to consider it an honor TO BE CALLED BY THAT NAME. Notice that is in the passive tense with someone else saying that. Peter wrote that in one of his Epistles.

Bravo, these punks are going to do what a trillion dollar institution could not...bring back interest in the rosary.

And if you are going to take away their rosary beads and their gang affiliation, you better have something else for them to do.

There are no jobs, often they come from families without a home or homelife.

You can't just say no, when society is collapsing around them and offers no direction for them to pursue.

The schools often do an inadequete job teaching even the basics to these kids.

Often when I substitute teach in the public schools in California and offer a clearly presented math lesson, the supposed gang members in these classrooms say, now I understand, that's the first time anyone ever explained it right.

So if you are going to take the rosary beads and gang affiliations away from these kids, you better have a functional alternative to offer, cuz right now, there isn't one.

Time changes everything and waits for no one and they thought moveable type was bad.

The principal had to know why the child was wearing a rosary. Of course, what happens is that people in authority tend to say, "If we let him, what about possible misuse...." And anything, of course, can be misused. A couple of the bloggers above have the right idea: first of all, it is a civil rights issue. A person should be able to wear a rosary, or any other religious jewelry, without having problems. That's covered by two ammendments, freedom of religion and free speech. The other note is that, stripped of this, gangs would find another way o identifying themselves. If you are concerned about gangs, then actually deal with the problems that cause them and the problems that they cause, rather than stomping all over people's rights. Does the principal really think that this is a way of elminating gangs, or just a way of eliminating the evidence from plain sight?

MHOUST asks, "Where do gang members come from?"

Answer: Illegal aliens.

Fix illegal immigration and you fix many other problems too.

I support the young man's right to wear his brother's rosary. If the school's policy was "no religious symbols shall be visible", then OK. But to single out any specific symbol as being prohibited, is discriminatory, and I hope it's overturned. This is coming from a practising Wiccan.

Rosaries are gang signs? Yes, as they always have been.

In a brief teaching stint in a tough-as-nails Massachusetts mill city, I watch soul-less thugs sport Rosary beads like they were talismans: in that gang culture, a "pocketful of posies" had the medical promise Rosaries have to protect soul-less thugs. I worked as a prison nurse decades ago, and was never frightened. Every day in that school district was living terror.
BTW, not one of them could have mumbled a Hail Mary if life depended on it. Teachers, on the other hand, prayed all the time.

Hey - - - don't forget to make it illegal to wear "Cross" jewelry, etc.

What's the surprise about Latino gang trash wearing rosaries? Mafia trash take communion and make donations to the Catholic church all the time! Ever see "The Godfathers"?

Haveaheart, you have funny logic.

Of course displaying of religious symbols is more important than undertdanding them. Displaying them is a constitutionally protected right.

Banning rosaries or burqas is childish.

Many Latinos wear rosaries around their neck, whether gangmembers or not. It's not exactly how they're supposed to be used, but meh, let's find something else to get in a huff about.

MHOUST ~ no, abortion is not part of the equation. On the other hand people who think their lives can be improved through violence and the killing of others certainly share a degenerate brotherhood ~ gangsters and abortionists really aren't that different eh.

This is news? Gang bangers have been wearing rosaries and hiding behind "religious freedom" for at least 20 years. (Of course, as already noted above, any practicing Catholic would know that they are not normally worn as jewelry.)

As I understand it, it has its origins in jailhouse policies that (once upon a time, anyway) limited the personal items and clothing that inmates were allowed to possess. Religious articles, for obvious reasons, could not (and should not) be prohibited.

Catholics don't normally wear the rosary. If they say the rosary, they carry it on their person, or for women, in their purse, taking it out as needed. You can also carry a pocket rosary (in your pocket of course). Furthermore, the example my parents set was to obey the rules. I grew up in a Catholic household realizing that it's not necessary to be in others' face about your religion, or your opinions. If the rules do not favor you, it doesn't always mean that the world is out to get you. You can still easily practice your religion without wearing the rosary as jewelry.

Who *wears* a rosary, anyway?
If you see someone wearing a rosary (as opposed to respectfully carrying it), that's just like seeing someone wearing an American flag as a cape: a sure sign that, whatever message they're trying to send, you can be sure it isn't one of respect for the symbol they're improperly using as an article of clothing.
Posted by: kcx7 | June 17, 2010 1:56 AM
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Better share this with some of the nuns I've seen with a rosary dangling around their necks.

Putting a rosary around one's neck isn't customary (it's prayer beads, not a necklace) but it's not necessarily a sacrelige. Using it as an identity or rank badge for a criminal gang, is certainly sacreligious. It would be really valuable if the kids would actually pray a rosary every day, perhaps with their family.

I remember in Catholic School the nuns wore large ones on their sides. But they would use the regular sized ones for prayer. I dont know why they had the larger ones but they were there.Many sacred things are throw into an evil base lately....There is a thin line between love and hate just as there is with bad and good as we see with Washington and politcians....Very sad, If they dont believe in God now and die, they will be suffering in an eternity of hell, worse than earthlife. If they do beleive and focus on the good and they die and God doesnt exist...well, you dont lose anything really. Its good to keep things in perspective.

Gangs are subcultures, whose relations go beyond the interpersonal and even the hierarchic. They also organize around culturally mediated signs, symbols, rituals, styles of dress, ways of carrying oneself, tattoos, body language, etc.

They borrow from the dominant culture, subvert, invert, and extend its attitudes, norms, behaviors, signs, symbols, etc. They also feed back into the mainstream culture, affecting fashion, film, the arts, etc.

The fish symbol, "Jesus" bumper stickers, etc. are also used to mark ones status as being a member of a gang. I see many of them driving in to the parking lot of Evangel Cathedral across from Six Flags. That has to be one of the biggest gangs/cults in the area. They prey on the ignorant.

Gang members wearing or carrying religious symbols on their person are hypocrites simple as that.

MikeKohut complains that "Everyone is free to ignore those displays and/or practice a different faith. Yet liberals in this country keep trying to tell us differently."

I agree with the first statement--freedom of religion is a guaranteed right--but I can tell you that in my experience, those who are BY FAR the more tolerant of ANY religion (or none at all) are the liberals. Yes, conservatives can be tolerant, too, but most of them find it much harder to ignore others' displays of a different faith. Many of them prefer to be "tolerant" of their own kind; i.e., the citizens of our "Christian nation..."

Times don't change; 60 years ago when I was a kid we had gangs then. It is the same old story their folks don't have a clue or don't care. The schools use them as an excuse of their falure to educate and protect the kids. They blame it on not enough public funding, as if money fixes everything. The churches of the various religons could care less as long as their collection plats fill up. The police blame the gangs for everything while they set in the coffee shops. What else is new.

Recently a young woman from Tennessee decided to protest 911 by wearing a full burka, covering every part of her body including the face.

http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/tennessee-muslim-makes-fashion-statement-by-wearing-garbage-bag/