With election results in, debate over religious factor begins

All of America must face the fact that Catholicism is a foreign
government whose primary allegiance is the creed they pray at mass every Sunday. "I believe in one holy Catholic Church."
That is an organization run by the dictator of the county named
The Vatican. And yes it is a problem because the members are indoctrinated in preschool and up to adulthood to pledge their allegiance to the church, The Vatican. They have and it has hurt America very seriously. Tax money to lack of support for public schools and need to succeed schools finding the new workers
for the pope to manage his money and political agenda in America. I detest such ruthless control of any society, but most especially the one I have to live in. I participated most of my life
very generously in Catholicism but this new movement is just as bad as what Germany suffered in the 1930s and will lead us to what they endured in the 1940s. If they protect life, I assure you it is only certain people's lives. Protect Life is just more propaganda to hide their "business" agenda. They should not be permitted to run for public office. You can't serve two masters, Jesus said. America is democracy. Catholicism is definitely not.
Propaganda is cheap shots. Witnessing is not. It is scary. Very scary. Catholicism is not truly a religion. It is a very aggressive political industry. 1500 years of wars.

Religion goes political because of the fear of God. For example, Christians who view extra-marital sex or homosexuality as sinful can choose not to engage in such behaviors. But then they begin to fear that if they do not try to put a stop to it in society, God will punish them. That's when things get ugly.

Christians also have the ugly behavior of cherry-picking their favorite sins. Leviticus-based laws against homosexuality generally require stoning the perpetrators to the death. But the same Old Testament book mandates the death penalty for plain old adultery, something that many Christians are guilty of, but choose to ignore.

The mixture of religion and politics is very, very dangerous, and I fear things have already gotten way out of hand, thanks primarily to Bible-thumping Republicans who think they are saving their own souls by destroying people who don't see things as they do.

It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic. I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering. This does
not sound like the Republicans I know.

As a Canadian it is my opinion that the USA is still a Christian nation with "IN GOD WE TRUST" printed on it's money.

Voting is often about philosophical beliefs. Religious beliefs are a touchstone of philosophy.

"It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic. I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering."

I am not a Christian but taking the idea that one should help those in need is a far cry from institutionalizing the idea. In the latter some institution takes money by force to give to the poor as it sees fit. That is an idea that is hard to support.

I believe that Christians have a good track record of voluntary giving.

The discrepancy between Jesus' teachings about mildness, anti-violence (don't stone the adultress!), forgiveness, attention to essence rather then strictness, and warnings against personal wealth, and the agenda of GOP is mind-blowing.

Christianity left Jesus behind a long time ago and became all about money, power, male hierarchy and world domination. Christians voting for GOP are supporting the rich over the poor.

Sticking to Jesus basic rules would be good, but generally religion should go away altogether. It hasn't done anyone any good, and is only used to strike down on protests against abuse of power. "It's God's will." This goes for Christianity, Islam, Judaism. They all demand you stop thinking and stop listening to your heart, and stop protesting against being stepped on.

That religion has no place in politics is therefore self-evident.

"It is the biggest joke in human history that the most dangerous agents of evil have come cloaked in the mantle of God".
Author unknown

GOP only has one God: Mammon.

Only people with no understanding of either politics or religion would even ask if there's any connection between the two.

Well, I guess hard times flush the chump. Everybody's lookin' for answers...
- Ulysses Everett McGill

Momvera,

You need to be educated. Read the history of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was not built by some stupid individual, like you, but by God Himself. When you die, whether you like it or not you will, sooner or later, God will ask you what have you done with your life. Then you can tell God what you have posted today. Let me know exactly what happened. Good luck.

religion is a total scam a fraud just hokus/pokus it should have nothing to do with politics ever.

dems support killing babies...
abortion...
you can't be a true catholic and support these baby killers...

philhicks28 said "It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic."

OK, I read your whole post and basically agree with the points you go on to make. But I have to go back and point out the underlying flaw in the "appearance" you talk about.

There's simply no way to lump together the followers of Jesus and generalize them as a homogenous group, "The Followers of Jesus". And in this case, it's particularly important to point out that there are many followers of Jesus who are politically progressive -- whose churches are open and welcoming to all, but who don't try to impose our version of morality on the secular state like the high-media-profile fundamentalist churches and groups routinely attempt to do.

The progressive wing of Christianity is embarked on changes that are challenging us to demonstrate yet again the ongoing vitality of the church. We refuse to become hidebound.

Of interest, these changes seem to be leading many of us in the direction of less denominationalism. Raised as a high-church Episcopalian, I was initially quite taken aback by this trend. Now as a member of a merged Presbyterian/UCC congregation (just one more step on the journey) I can see the waning denominational influence first-hand, and it seems a perfectly natural process to me.

To tie this all back to your assertion, no, we don't show up on your TV screens, nor will you point out our 10,000-seat mega-sanctuaries to your visiting relatives. But you'll find us in your neighborhoods helping out in our low-level way as the Good News calls us to do.

In fairness to the Catholic church, issues like abortion can't be lumped in with other political matters because, to them, abortion means legalizing killing people because of their category (not yet born). If one takes that view, opposition takes the same moral value as killing any other group. If Germany had passed a law saying Jews and Gypsies were not people within the definition of the law, would that have removed any grounds for opposing the death camps?

Religion is nonsense. The whole thing is set up to control people by tapping into their prehistoric predilection to believe in superstition, magic, and all the other idiocy that compromises the human capacity for rational thought. If these beliefs are what you need to get through life, you are doomed.

If you want to talk about your politics I don't want to hear about your religious beliefs, and vice versa. I don't care if you worship "Aqua Buddha", keep it to yourself.

edbyronadams |Said"
It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic.

I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man
who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering."
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Food for the starving is a good thing.

Catholic charities and other organizations provide such things.
Unemployment, Welfare and Medicare have there place too.

I work my but off during the day. In the evening I work on renovating the house I am paying for with sweat and blood.

My next door neighbor has a house that is already renovated and she lives in it for free thanks to my tax dollars! And I have to put up with her pit bull barking constantly because she neglects it. And all of her drug dealing boyfriends coming around.
I left a window open and one of them stole my TV!

Some time ago politics and religion was completely separated in my country and faith or the spiritual life of politicians was rarely presented.

It seems to be a tendency because nowadays my country is more open to talk about religion.

But an interesting point is that, it is happening at a time when the protestantism have more adepts than in the past but as not representing the majority most of the politicians are still submissive to the catholic rule when it comes to polemic questions.

Agreeing or not with their decisions the electorate tend to favor faithful candidates, it is normal since you belong to the same denomination, now religious appeals being brought into politics and being considered a tendency or a proof that we are now closer to the american political life just give me the impression that the people have never felt secure about the religious convictions of our politicians, maybe this is the reazon for phrases like God allowing me I will...! You can think that it would'nt make any difference but it will make many think , he is christian, give him a chance.

Politics and Religion? Let's look at them: Politics is inherently a corrupting thing on human character, or at the least an enhancer of mans worst traits.

Religion, well rather than give a half-baked definition I'd rather just describe a couple of the main ones. Christianity, it's oldest church has a now proven history of harboring, and protecting sexual predators of children, also a very gory history of atrocities. It's main opposite condones stoning women to death, beheading and hanfging them for matters considered trivial in every other culture on the planet, and allows the practice of mutilating the genitalia of young girls.

Now I have a question: Is it really wise to let Religion into Politics?

Most of these right wing nuts are screaming "in the name of religion." Watch their hate, observe their self-centered agenda, and listen to thier rant against everyone "different." I am a practicing Catholic and I will never cease to be amazed at the ignorance and lack of civility toward others by these so called "religious" folkd.

I have to point out that a majority of Protestants (and I am one) say "I believe in the holy catholic Church" every week when they recite the Apostles' Creed. The holy catholic Church refers to the Church universal, NOT the Roman church.

I also have to object to the "Jesus never said the government should take care of the poor" argument from Christians who happen to be conservative. As someone who is a liberal BECAUSE he is a Christian, let me note that Jesus lived and worked and taught under the foreign occupying army of a then-hereditary monarchy. In a representative democratic republic, WE are the government, and "render unto Caesar" takes on a whole new meaning. Christians should support the most effective way to help the most poor, hungry, sick, naked, and imprisoned, whether it be run by the government, a faith-based organization or a secular institution. There are some things the government does well, and Christians need to admit that. We don't (yet) have armed forces run by individual churches either.

There is no such thing as the "Separation of Church and State" at a State Government level and if there was the ACLU would be able to remove the strong reliance on God found in all the State Constitutions. For that matter, the Supreme Court Building was designed to show the Judeo-Christian Heritage as being foremost in all religions by Chief Justice Howard Taft who felt the job of the Supreme Court was to uphold the principles found in the Constitution which he considered to be our Ark of the Covenant with God. The Supreme Court itself in 1833 made the statement that the federal Government had absolutely no right to interfere in the States as far as their beliefs or in their schooling and from the 1960's on have done nothing but interfere with disastrous results in the U.S. educational system and morality...

As a former Federal employee, I was prohibited from expressing my views on politics because of the Hatch Act, and I at least pay taxes. I think that any religious official (priest, preacher, deacon, ...whatever) should also have a gag rule applied, or else start paying taxes on everything that church/tent/temple, ...whatever gets away with currently. They should stick to saving souls, not telling people how to vote. None of their business.

Communism sought to replace belief in God with belief in government through which marxists would build a secular utopia based on equality and social justice. Progressivism is just that on a smaller scale. Under communism God's replacment was the Beloved Leader- Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Pot Pot, Mao, Castro. The near deification of Obama was a frightful reminder of the ideology that destroyed 100 million lives. And a warning.

To ch4gas:
So sorry to hear about your discomfort in not being free to express yourself. You need to remember that you are a "bought" person. As my "public servant" every penny you spend was first sacrificed by a taxpayer. You made the choice to become our public servant with all the generous perks we also provide, thereby accepting the regulations that accompany that position. You can always choose to leave "public service," give up your generous perks and pension. You are free, anytime, to join the ranks of those who work in the private sector, and who often forego vacations and struggle to fund meager retirements, in order to remain free agents.

I can't wait to watch the fundies turn against the catholics and vice versa in their quest for Theocracy.

A Christian politician is an oxymoron in the highest degree. Politicians concern themselves with the policies and laws of men on earth, and seek to remain in power. That is their job. The meditations of a disciple of Christ are on spiritual matters to which the law cannot touch. 2 Timothy 2:4 says that a soldier enlisted in warfare does not engage himself with the things of this earth. I am not stating that we shouldn't care, but it cannot be at the forefront of our lives. As some as already stated, you cannot serve God and anything else.

There is however a real and present battle at the feet of the body of Christ. That battle is to define what Christianity is before the religious right does. The religious right has brainwashed many into believing that they stand for Christ primarily because we are a nation addicted to media. Our daily bread is television rather than the word of God, so the level of confusion is not at all surprising.
We see these nominal Christians get up and speak vehemently about righteousness, without having any relationship with Christ. It is evident in the fruit they produce. Its everywhere, in the pulpit, on TV, in print. Its just disgusting. It is damaging because Christians are supposed to be able to speak the truth in love about the things that separate us from God(sin), but it becomes increasingly hard to do so while the fake Christians speak truth by law and self righteousness because they have not seen the Christ. They make the duty of disciples very difficult by attaching themselves to our cry while having their own agenda. Its hard to declare whats right nowadays, mostly because the people declaring right are living wrong. Very sad.

And for the record, this is going to make some people upset, but Catholicism and being a disciple of Christ are not the same thing. In fact, they are exact opposites. (Talk to someone with an understanding of Daniel and Revelation, they will tell you a truth that you should not fear, if you truly seek God). There are millions of practicing Catholics who have a heart for the one true God, but because of the tradition of men, they are trapped into a religion based in complete heresy.
There is nothing holy about the pope, nor is there any power in revering the virgin Mary, or any saint. No priest can forgive our sin, nor does any man stand in the place of Christ. Christ's death gave every living person direct access to God through his Son Jesus Christ. We are living in a time where God is calling out to his church and his Spirit is convicting many across all denominations. Those whose hearts truly seek God will recognize his voice, flee from any form of legalistic religion of works and cling to Christ. He is the way the truth and the life. If you are a Catholic an want to know the truth, please respond.

momvera,
Can we chat over email?

The message is: I don't want my tax dollars to cover health insurance for learning-challanged people less fortunate than I am : let them suffer. Just because I am a christian, it doesn't mean I have to act like one.

Wasn’t it the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus preached the Gospel of the Free-Market Capitalism (according to his disciples Adam Smith and Ayn Rand), telling his flocks that if they are unhappy with their lot in the world, they need to buck up, pick themselves up by their bootstraps, and get to work for whatever meager wage the marketplace hands them. He reminded the poorest among them that the rich will always be with us, will inherit the earth (and everything on it), and that it is more like that a camel will pass through the eye of a needle than a bunch of lazy welfare cheaters will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Basically - you’re on your own, pal.

Oh, yeah. And here’s some bread.

"It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic. I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering."
According to Mr. Thomas Sowell, Conservatives on average make a bit less money than Liberals, give more to charity and give more blood. So please stop making things up about people as it is a waste of our life-time.

Momvera remarked about the expression, "I believe in the holy catholic church" - Protestants and Episcopalians (like me) make this statement in the Apostles' Creed, but it does not reflect any allegiance to Catholicism. It is the common noun catholic, meaning universal. So it's a statement about the unified Christian church, not an endorsement of Roman Catholicism.

Does religious belief lead to political commitments? Or do political beliefs influence religious ties?

MHR614, I agree. Your comment reminded me of something my mother used to say when I was very small: "Read the Bible so if the Communists take it away, you'll have it in your heart." A few years ago I remembered this and thought, how quaint, and what a sign of those times! However, I think now we have come perilously close to the Communist suppression of religion with obama. As you put it well, obama's near-deification is a warning to us. His cult of personality, his scorn for Christianity and the current trend of "atheist chic" are not coincidental.

"It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic. I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering."
_______
According to Mr. Thomas Sowell, Conservatives on average make a bit less money than Liberals, give more to charity and give more blood. So please stop making things up about people as it is a waste of our life-time.
______

The Dems I know were the only ones doing charity work for vets and their families while my family member was deployed. The GOPers I knew claimed that putting a yellow ribbon magnet on your car was enough. You'd be surprised how many in the military hated Bush and co. Consider how many Dems in Congress served while most GOpers did not. So as you said, "stop making things up about people as it is a waste of our life-time. "

Religion has no place whatsoever in government, period.

YES! Finally we will have some Godly Senators and House Representitves even more so now that will make good rules that will bring back this country to it's roots that were intended from the begining before librals got ahold of things and tore this country up!

Obama is a communist, Obama is going to supress religion, Obama is being worshipped like a god.

What a load of hooey. Near-deification? Only in the little minds of fanatical Christian right-wingers! Communist? You don't know what the term means, much less what it was really like in the Soviet Union or other communist dictatorships. Obama is no more a communist or socialist than is John Boehner or Mitch McConnell. There's a lot of foolish people out there, and there's a few of them posting on this forum.

Keep your religion and your crackpot ideas to yourself. Keep religion out of politics.

Posted by: dave6729 : "from the 1960's on have done nothing but interfere with disastrous results in the U.S. educational system and morality..."
________________________________________

I for one would be fascinated to hear your logic on how those two things are not only correlated, but also how you think one caused the other. Please show references.

We wouldn't have to tax rich people and "point guns at them" to take care of society's needy if they did it willingly. But, they don't (see, for example, the Waltons of Wal-Mart fame). Therefore, we have to tax them ruthlessly because otherwise they won't help out and will just be like giant mosquitoes sucking out the life from all of us.

And religion was specifically identified in the Constitution as something that Congress would not make any laws about. Therefore elected officials should not have their religious beliefs influencing their politics at all. As long as your beliefs are reality based we're good.

KG621 wrote:

YES! Finally we will have some Godly Senators and House Representitves even more so now that will make good rules that will bring back this country to it's roots that were intended from the begining before librals got ahold of things and tore this country up!
_______________________________________________

Would that be the same roots that were placed by the religous protesters that left the old world because of religous repression? Or the roots found in the Declaration of Independence, which was writen by a diest? Or the roots laid down by Benjamin Franklin who founded the first mosque in North America?

The roots of our country is in religous tolerance.

America is entering a dark age.

KG621 wrote:
"YES! Finally we will have some Godly Senators and House Representitves even more so now that will make good rules that will bring back this country to it's roots that were intended from the begining before librals got ahold of things and tore this country up!"

Just because you believe in a god doesn't mean others do or have to! You believe what you wish but keep you religin to yourself and leave the rest of us ALONE!!
_______________________________________________

C'mon now RNJ341, your very existence threatens their delusion, their ability to maintain it. Watch how long it takes for them to make atheism ... and Buddhism and all those other "religions" illegal.

It's a dark age, but we've survived this before. It's just that our future was in our hands alone, but no longer in the global world we live in.

So they're going to try to pray away our problems. Hah, good luck with that.

Still valid after 2000 years:

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.

Seneca the Younger, 3 BC – 65 AD

Why is it so hard for theists to imagine that their gods are simply inventions of the human mind - projections of our human experience onto the natural world around us? (Big man in the sky).

It's easy enough to see this with other people's gods, just not with your own.

All gods are fictions. Arguing about what gods do, or don't do, is a pathetic waste of time.

Until and unless we return all troops from combat zones, the economy will remain in shambles. The cost of supporting troops in Afghanistan and Iraq for ONE WEEK, could turn the domestic economy around in a blink. WE CAN'T WAGE WAR AND SEEK PEACE AT THE SAME TIME. No war economy in the last five millennia COULD!

momvera proves the Know Nothing Party is alive and well here in the States.

Why do people trust the GOP, the party that always says it will, but never did and never will. If Christ were alive today do you think He would trust Himself to them? He Himself was tempted to use government, tempted by Satan of course to further His kingdom, through force and not the power of Love. Government simply does not have the power to change the hearts and minds of its people, only God can do that, the most it can do is pass a law and punish, but that hasn't solved the drug problem and indeed may have made it worse, more prisons didn't solve it and big money propels it. When the right to have an abortion was ruled on at least it brought it out into the light where the Church and its citizens could finally see it for what it was, until then it was hidden below the surface of society where it was pretty much ignored, out of sight, out of mind, evil works best that way, but now is the Church and its citizens willing to put their effort into this or again would rather leave it to government and to its policy makers that are willing to promise, but never deliver.

Oh Boy! Here is the Bane of Mankind laid bare.
====================================
Posted by: jojomijala . . .to Momvera:

"You need to be educated. Read the history of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was not built by some stupid individual, like you, but by God Himself. . ." etc. etc.

===================================
Bad news, jojo ----- Nobody not knowhow KNOWS who, what or if about God. Neither YOU nor ANY OTHER MERE MORTAL can actually SPEAK for God. Unfortunately, there are many mere people who actually believe that THEY represent God... David of WACO infamy, Manson of Hollywood fame, Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart, the Pope, and many others. . . . who are simply living an illusion CREATED by mere MEN!

Religion definitely played a big part in the GOP incumbent fool that getting re-elected. His daily tweets are Bible quotes. He constantly waves the Bible around when he speaks in committee sessions. His 2nd choice was Lutheran minister if he didn't get into congress 14 yrs. ago. He even told people that "God wants him in congress" when he campaigned. He's done nothing for his district, lied to the people. He's beyond arrogant & rude. They love him for it like some holy messiah. It's frightening & sad to watch. I truly pity these blind fools.

As for the Catholic Church being built by "by God Himself" that "jojomijala" mentioned above -- total misstatement. It's an amalgamation of every mono-theistic religion that existed 2,000 ago. Some of the best parts are Pagan in origin. Most would call it a plagiarized religion founded in Jewish homes.
The definition of "catholic": (1) broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
(2) universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
The Vatican should consider a name change: Parochial Church.

It depresses me that Americans continue to indoctrinate their children into believing in a God, and a supernatural world where folks get to live forever. As far as we know there are no gods, and nothing and no-one lives forever.

Childhood indoctrination creates a hypnotized person who believes - like the 9/11 terrorists - that these things are true, when any normal un-indoctrinated person sees it as absurd fantasy.

Didn't we learn anything from 9/11? Didn't we learn how powerful religious belief can be? And to what terrible ends it can take us?

There is no bigger threat to our planet than religion. Some deranged religionist will blow us all to smithereens one of these days - for some god or another.

We have to stop telling lies to our children. We should allow them to grow into adults without insisting they be brainwashed first. We would be doing them a great favor.

That criminal organization CAIR is now sueing the state of Oklahoma because the people from that state voted against allowing Sharia law to be considered in that state.

CAIR once again showing disrespect for the supremacy of US law.

Shewholives,

The U.S. Constitution trumps both Sharia and Oklahoma law. Evidently, Oklahomans didn't read the U.S. Constitution before they banned stuff that is already banned by the U.S. Constitution.

Go figure?

crabstu,
Actually momvera is touching on some very real truths, but there's more to it than what he's saying.
You should be more open, you might be surprised at what you find out.

Jesus drove out the moneychangers, gave support to the poor, and believed all life is precious. The GOP embraces the moneychangers, sin by policies that create more poverty but are pro life, the one issue that drives older voters and Evangelicals that came out in force in this election putting the GOP back in power in the House.

Funny to see the Catholic bashers on this forum, especially the other "Christians". My religion is better than yours is the reason for much suffering in the world today as well as the past. Forcing your belief on others is wrong, sinful in Islam, yet is practiced by all religions. Creationism and terrorism pushed by us and religion hijackers are not acceptable to this American. My guess is in 20 years religion will have less emphasis in determining votes.

Lot of opinions and name calling here, but I have a question instead of an opinion: People who vote in off-years tend to be older and better off on average than those who vote in presidential years. What happens to these statistics if you factor out age and economic status?

Things don't look too good for the Democrats, but maybe not as bad with respect to 2012 as people assume.

If you are a Catholic an want to know the truth, please respond.

Posted by: crossingubadly | November 4, 2010 11:18 AM
=============================================
Truth is you want your beliefs to become mine, not much different than the Taliban.

Religious Dogma, along with ignorance, superstition, and tribalism is probably the most destructive invention of mankind. Which God of the 400+ religions currently practiced on this rock is the right one? There is a God, but he/her gave man free will and then stepped back to watch.

With the extreme self-righteousness I see developing in America, we are on the path to the religious war to end it all. Both believers and Atheists know it as Armageddon.

An email sent to the Prime Minister of Canada, shortened for the character limitation of this site.

Subject : I Can Do Nothing By Myself but What I see The Father Doing, That I Do - Jesus The Christ

Prime Minister,

Reading this online news report Today, I was moved to write the following comment. I expect you should be aware of these developing realities, seeing the need in preparing Canadians to deal with these realities and gathering storm in a positive and constructive way.

Peace

Ray Joseph Cormier

Unprecedented: Iowa voters oust three judges over gay marriage ruling
Being Canadian and watching what is happening in America and the world, I have never heard of elected Judges except in the U.S. In most other enlightened Democracies, Judges are appointed after a
thorough vetting system and recommendations to the government from the various Law associations and concerned Citizen groups. They are assessed on their knowledge of the Law, Intellect and Reasoning in their
Judgments.

There are valid and good reasons for an appointed Judiciary over an elected one. Unless an elected/appointed Judge has
impeccable personal integrity, free from all prejudice, political or financial considerations or inducements, devoted only to Principle and the Truth, Law and Justice, he/she will have to pander to the voters and mob rule and vigilante Justice prevails. Evil will prevail. Hell will swallow up the people.

There are few models of this kind of
principled individual among the political, religious or popular
leadership in the public eye, but I am confident there be many unknown
and unrecognized individuals among the people living the Way, the Truth
and The Life incognito except to God.

The message I get from what happened in
Iowa with this vote is the People's ignorance, fear and prejudice triumphed over Knowledge and Reason and the Rule of Law. If what happens in Iowa is the
harbinger of what is coming to America, then God have mercy and help us all.

Our Civilization is a very thin veneer, just keeping the animal-man-beast in check and it appears to be unravelling. I interpret this Judgment of the People of Iowa as the Times are getting ready to loosen the hounds.

I absolutely support the ideal of government of the people, by the people, for the people, the Spiritual American Dream that has inspired the world. It bespeaks of the Innocence in the Garden God created this Planet to be in the beginning. The people have devolved
rather than evolved and direct Democracy require the people to govern themselves 1st, in word and deed, before they Judge others.

Only then will others emulate the example and it spread among the people. Then
there will be no need for politicians or religious leaders. No one would have to talk about God because everyone would know God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q0Eyw3l3XM

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-65703

Here's an example of what the discussion is about. Smith was the Tea Party/ Republican challenger in Virginia's 3rd Congressional district. Scott was the Dem. incumbent. Scott won in one of the few, very few safe Democratic districts in the state. The rural county in which the ad appeared, however, went Tea Party 3-1.

"Chuck Smith will vote for family and faith

Many pastors in Virginia's 3rd Congressional District are facing real concerns.

Looking at Congressman Bobby Scott's shocking voting record, spiritual leaders are seeing a great divide between what they preach from the pulpit every Sunday, and the way Scott has voted in DC for the past eighteen years.

Protecting Marriage? Scott says no.

Prayer in School? Scott says no.

Faith based programs? President Obama says yes, but Scott says no.

Keeping "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Scott says no.

Recognizing Christianity as a major religion? Scott says no.

Even the importance of Christmas? Scott says no.

This year you have choice.

Vote for your faith.

Vote for your family.

Vote for Chuck Smith

Paid for and authorized by the Republican Party of Virginia."

(New Kent-Charles City [Virginia] Chronicle, Oct. 21 - Nov 3, 2010, p.6 [half-page ad])

God will judge those who cynically use his name and cause to gain political power. I, for one, will never vote for them.

***Asking moderates to influence religious votes embraces state controlled religion.***

We teach people to be socially organized in school. We should not be surprised that socially organized groups act in unison and often do not reflect personal opinion. If we measure people based on their military affiliation, we would probably find very significant influences that are more aggressive and powerful. I'm not sure we have found which influence is the most powerful.

I am sure there are big bucks provided by well-educated powerful people running through rural communities to fund ignorant ranting. We need to make American believe in a unified and diverse culture. They believed that when they elected Obama, since then the public has suffered an economic blow.

It is clear they believe that money applied to medical care will support socialized support of the upper class. If we can't prove that secure jobs will be provided to the masses in every walk of life we don't deserve to be running the country. The alternative is a more strained environment that will be less productive. Comedians telling people they're ignorant and lazy has been our approached so far. We could get a lot further with respect... isn't this how Obama won?

What was religion's role... justify and validate the hate.

Belief in a god qualifies one more for the asylum than holding public office or voting.

The USA currently spends half her federal budget on defense and national security. It's a country with poor or non-existent social services where losing your job could very well mean homelessness. The USA is a model rejected by all the developed nations of Western Europe, Canada and Australia. The top 1% of Americans owns 25% of the USA's wealth. As for the Tea Party, what a bunch of manipulated, blathering fools!

Is anyone else amused by the irony of the sign in the photo?

A Republican government would, in fact, like to take away this woman's supposedly "God-given" rights.

- The right to marry whom she chooses
- The right to make decisions about her own body
- The right to have the faith of her own choosing
- The right to speak freely without being investigated as being un-American
- The right to an education based in science and facts
- The right to DISAGREE with anything she hears

... and so on. Sweet irony.

"It is interesting that the followers of Jesus appear to be more Republican than Democratic. I seem to recall that the bible stories I was told of about Jesus told of a man who believed in sharing food with the poor and comforting the suffering. This does
not sound like the Republicans I know.
Posted by: philhicks28 | November 4, 2010 12:51 AM
Report Offensive Comment"

Republicans give more to charity and don't ask the needy to beg for it like the dems do...

* The inevitable battle of 'Forgive us our Debts'
http://reverendfun.com/?date=20100719

This cartoon depicts labor vrs professionals. People are won when their child is educated, they get a job from expedited job training, and their lives are more secure. When they don't get that they look for a demon. Don't kill your relationship with the poor by humiliating their heritage while your enemies thrive on cheap tricks.

Education is the smoking gun. For example we recognize that homosexuality causes a child to be a target. We do not recognize that local educators attempting to control school ranking use the 'gay' word to arrange an assault. School support is based on property and social fund-raisers... that's extremely elitist. We don't address the corruption of the largest union in the US (education) being professional, socially funded and locally protected. Zero tolerance laws have been used to expel kindergarten students and you will find very few young people who question the wisdom of using body socks to control active children.

In spite of the fact that obesity is our number one health issue in children, we are still trying educated culinary students to eat our way to health, instead of stimulate our appetite for healthy food with exercise.

A good message is to address people's issues locally and be sure checks and balances exist in every institution. It is easily possible that you can succeed at mobilizing the masses in a vote and loose the goals of human welfare. The long term goal is won by undeniable credibility,

Religion can be used and is used to get people to vote irrationally.

Catholics who vote Democrat are committing serious sin enabling babies to be killed so these fallen Catholics will pay for their crime sooner or later. Biden and Pelosi and other Catholic politicians will be punished much more severely and are candidates for Hell. Be forewarned!

Religion should NOT PLAY ANY ROLL IN GOVERNMENT OR ELECTIONS RELIGION IS NOT DEMOCRATIC.

Religion is a dictatorship NOT a democracy!

IF the evangelical right take over American, all of America will be lost for ever!

Democracy will be lost for ever!

The American people will loose their voice and free will to evangelicals.

Religious leaders will imprison those who don't share their religious views & belief structure.

Christians will call it "re-education camps" but they will still be for-profit prisons.

Christians will imprison up to 1/2 or more of the population in order to maintain control. This is how Christians will maintain their power structure & majority IN ANY FUTURE ELECTION!

You can kiss good by to roe v wade, Abortions will be a crime punishable by LIFE IN PRISON OR DEATH!

Woman you will LOOSE ALL YOUR RIGHTS UNDER CHRISTIAN RULE!

EVANGELICALS BELIEVE THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE SUBSERVIENT TO THEIR MEN!

Women who are raped will be forced to bear the rapists children and raise them in the Church. Woman will have to spend the rest of their life with the shame of being raped because it was Gods will!

Children will be beaten into submission because "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is how Evangelical Christians raise their children to be subservient!

Never mind they don't act like the Christians we all knew growing up, That is in the past.

The new Christian is intent on controlling every aspect of your life. Like who can marry, who can adopt children, who can teach in schools and more important WHO CAN'T!

Textbooks will be rewritten from the beginning of time, making religion the center focal point of everything (even if it's a lie).

The Christians say it thus it will be the truth. (look at Texas today) Indoctrinate of Children in public school is the new norm. Children are forced to memorize their version of the Bible.

What's left of the American people will be divided into classes. Such as manual labors, religious leaders, political leaders & Corporate leaders at the top of the food chain.

America will no-longer be a FREE NATION OR A FREE PEOPLE. RELIGION WILL BE FORCED ON EVERYBODY...OR ELSE!

YOU CAN HAVE WHAT YOU THINK IS FREEDOM...AS LONG AS YOU AGREE WITH THE EVANGELICALS IN POWER.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL BE GONE FOR EVER. IN IT'S PLACE WILL BE THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION.

CHEAP LABOR FROM MEXICO WILL FLOOD ACROSS THE NEWLY REMOVED BOARDER TO TAKE ALL THE JOBS.

AMERICANS WILL EITHER JOIN THE RULING PARTY OR BE FORCED INTO RE-EDUCATION CAMPS. THE LUCKY ONE WILL FLEE THE COUNTRY AND NEVER RETURN BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS DEAD & GONE!

THE SMARTER STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA WILL PULL OUT OF THE UNION AND PLACE GUARDS ON THEIR BOARDERS ATTEMPTING TO KEEP THE CHRISTIAN ARMY FROM TAKING OVER CALIFORNIA!

ALL OF THIS IS VERY POSSIBLE BY 2020. IT'S THEIR STATED PLAN TO TAKE OVER OUR COUNTRY AND PUT THEMSELVES INTO POWER!

THAT IS WHAT YOU GET FROM RELIGIOUS RULE AND CHRISTIAN DOMINATION!

You reap what you vote. The unholy alliance of religion and the party of income disparity is sinking the nation. It's no secret that both rely on deluding feeble minds.

In 2004 I was actively involved with the Democratic Party campaign in Florida. The DNC strategy in my state was aimed at the base. About 25% of the calls I made to registered Democrats pushed back on Kerry's abortion and gay marriage stance. Some mentioned that their pastors or priests urged their vote against the Democratic candidate from the pulpit.

Ralph Reed was Bush 43's campaign manager in the Southeast in 2004. He mobilized the clergy to his cause and was instrumental in the GOP victory in the region.

Reports of political sermons that were forwarded to the DNC were ignored. I am under the impression that the Democratic Party still doesn't understand how they lost Florida to an unpopular incumbent president with a majority of registered voters. The answer is Ralph Reed kicked their fannies with his emphasis on mobilizing the clergy.

What happened to the concept of tax free institutions like churches refraining from political activity lest they lose the tax status?

God may give her her rights, but it is the government that hauls her into court, taxes her income, taxes her property, and sends her son off to war.

weylguy, Christians don't believe God will punish THEM if they don't stop sins like homosexuality and adultry. They know the punishment for unrepentant sins and are warning the perps so they don't have to go thru it. The operative word here is "Repent." We're all guilty.

One notes in passing that God died in 1687, w/the Principia; all the rest is commentary...all belief is irrational, but scientific belief works...who can deny that the Pope is authoritarian, when he insists upon it?...the two greatest evils are jingoism & religion...no matter--in the end, H. unsapiens is doomed...as for H. cyborgensis, who knows? ecce veritas!

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Communism sought to replace belief in God with belief in government through which marxists would build a secular utopia based on equality and social justice. Progressivism is just that on a smaller scale. Under communism God's replacment was the Beloved Leader- Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Pot Pot, Mao, Castro. The near deification of Obama was a frightful reminder of the ideology that destroyed 100 million lives. And a warning.

POSTED BY: MHR614 | NOVEMBER 4, 2010 10:51 AM

There's a difference between completely eliminating religion from society and just keeping it out of government and politics.
And too, theocracies have been known to spill a bit of blood using similar rationales as did Stalin and Mao.

Marx was right about religion.

Catholic Bishops made their bed with conservative evangelicals and ultra right wing conservatives. Thinking that this union would strenghten their hand politically. They forgot these groups historically opposed the church and it's morale theology. Now they have a problem, they aren't in step with their members and don't have the influence they should due to their poor choices made more than a decade ago. It's flock will suffer tremendously because the sheppard worried about himself, not those he was to protect.

Jesus is not interested in our governments as far as governance, he is only interested in our behavior as individuals and if we are following him spiritually or not. Mixing church and state as if they could possibly be one and the same is anathama to anything Jesus taught or spoke of. So for the GOP to think they are more religious or godly (which they do)than any other party is poppycock and proof they are the end times apostacy. They practice paganism by on Sunday as well as their Christmas and Easter pagan worship, and their doctrines which are all pagan and man-made. Now they think they are more religious than those who just choose to follow Jesus. They are the apostacy.

I presume non-religious Americans voted Democratic, or does what we do matter?

If god helped the republicans win, he, she or it is dumber than I thought.

When we stand before our Father, He will not ask us how many cows we have accumulated, rather He will ask how much mild did we give to the poorer amoung us. When we do not share our wealth with those who have so little, how do we rationalize that we can sit at the right hand of the Son of God? Evengal Christians certainly believe in their hearts that Jesus would wrap His arms around all of His children, regardless of their sexual orientation.. We are ALL GOD"S CHILDREN.

True belief is at the root of our incoherence, our hatred and our fear. Yeats said it better than anyone: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity".

If one doesn't believe in god, one doesn't stand in fear of being judged. If one doesn't believe in an afterlife, it holds no terror. I believe it is just that confidence that the believers envy. We who do not believe, behave without any hidden agenda. We give to charity because it is the right thing to do; we volunteer because we care about our fellow human beings, regardless of race, creed, or color. We support our schools because it is an inherent human right to learn. Perhaps the believers could take note...

From my vantage point, as a 70+ patriotic American, I would like to comment that:
1. Keep your religions in your churches, mosques, synogogues and othe houses of worship.
2. I know you believe your's is the "best", "true", "only way to salvation" but that is what your religion has taught you and you have freely chosen to believe...God speed and isn't it wonderful you have that choice in a free and diverse society?
3. Please don't assume everyone agrees with you or that those who don't are simply ignorant or pagan.
4. Also, please don't assume that only a religious person can be a good person; one can believe in the Golden Rule, and the Consitution, and what science has discovered about the world we inhabit, and how much alike all humans are.
5. The history of almost all religions is pretty scary; wars fought, country's and their cultures crushed, hate, fear and ignorance were often motivation for bringing "God to the heathens".
6. I thought we were beyond all that; that we were proud to live in a country that respected all and protected their rights to worship however they chose but...the mental picture of a room full of bishops bargaining with the Speaker of our House of Representatives to re-write proposed legislation, and incorporate their beliefs, or they would prevent its passage causes great fear in my heart.
7. I don't care what religion they were representing; the point is it could be anyone's at any time and that the crux of the problem. Those that believe theirs is the only true faith give no respect to another's intelligent and/or emotional choice that is different than theirs. Those who choose an established religion, or choose to believe that nature is/is not synomymous with God, are as entitled to that belief as to any other.
8. Just keep it to yourself; practice the goodness you read in your holy book or hear from a pulpit or feel in a quiet forest. Do your thing; let all peaceful people do theirs and for God's sake respect one-another; stop name-calling, screaming, threatening, manipulating and try to do good on our planet. Start listening and, go out and do good for your fellow Americans. Pleae do it soon...or I won't be around to see it!

Sorry White cane- we take note- most of the atheist crowd does not give to charity at the same rate, and just sits on the Internet and shouts about religion being "evi;l"

YOU don't get it - we give to the poor and to charities because God has placed the desire in our hearts to do so; because we love God; because Christian love is giving to other less fortunate than us. I has NOTHING to do with fear, but obedience that comes from living and loving God as Christ commanded us to do.

You apparently don't get it, and you should take note.

My problem with the religious right is that they are continuing their march towards turning this country into a religious dictatorship not unlike many of the Islamic countries, only instead of Sharia law they'll be using Biblical law instead.

The time of Nehemiah Scudder from Robert Heinlein's "Future History" series gets closer and closer, along with the eventual destruction of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. This frightens me, but given how much it seems that Americans want to live in such a society, I am truly afraid that it will happen in my lifetime.

So "I don't get it"; you have no clue as to if I belong to your religion or any other. Just because I believe in respecting people's right to worship as they please, or not, you assumed I don't believe in God or am not a Christian - which is actually not the point at all!

I don't know of research re: Christians, or any religious denomination, or athiests, are more or less charitable as a group. That is not my experience at all. Do you truly believe people are so selfish and uncaring that they have to be told to be good, kind, generous? I have much more faith in the inherent goodness of mankind.

If your beliefs motivate you to contribute to those in need - great. Whatever works. But I truly think you are the one that does not get it; just look at the manner in which you addressed me. Is that kind or respectful? What if I were your parent or grandparent?

And how did the Muslims vote? I wonder if liberals would post such hate filled post against people who practice the Muslim religion. Last I checked they all seem to be defending the Muslim religion as if it was the true religion. But let someone mention WHITE Christians and liberals can't say anything good about them. And you wonder why the majority thinks the liberals are a fringe group of idiots.

Two years ago I read a poll that found that 73% of evangical Christians supporte the use of torture. Think about it. These supposedly God-loving people SUPPORT THE USE OF TORTURE. That did it for me. These are people who worship at the feet of George W. Bush, the president that started an unnecessary invasion that needlessly killed over one hundred thousand people,and who allowed the US Army to forced an entire prison population to remain naked,threatened with dogs, and perform sexual acts for the amusement of their American captors. This is their hero. I no longer will suffer the supposed moral superiority of this group of holy rollers, who, as far as I am concerned, are morally bankrupt. Their support of torture and George Bush makes them all abominations. They are disgusting. They have NO RIGHT to lecture anyone about moral values because THEY HAVE NO MORAL VALUES.

fresstrinker says, "The U.S. Constitution trumps both Sharia and Oklahoma law. Evidently, Oklahomans didn't read the U.S. Constitution before they banned stuff that is already banned by the U.S. Constitution."

There are many instances of states amplifying the Constitution within their own states, so as not to have to rely on the Federal courts to decide what happens in their state.

Rongoklunk says, "We have to stop telling lies to our children. We should allow them to grow into adults without insisting they be brainwashed first. We would be doing them a great favor."
-----
I am a GOP Christian. I don't care what you believe, but I do care if you want to tell me what to teach my children.

I will stop telling lies to my children at the same time you do.

Just confirms that MOST humans are still in Stone Age Mentality with respect to Nature, Biology, and baseless Superstition. Just look at how many actually accept the words of religious figureheads (in the Vatican, at Mecca, in pulpits and all sorts of Shrines) as GOD's words and instructions.

Bottom line THOSE spokesmen don't know ANYTHING more about God than any other human being! That's a FACT. NONE of US KNOW!

"The coincidence of wealth with toleration has led to the bizarre paradox of a conservative movement that embraces economic change but hates its social consequences and a liberal movement that loves the social consequences buy hates the economic source from which they come. 'One side denounced capitalism but gobbled up its fruits; the other cursed the fruits while defending the system that bore them'" -Matt Ridley, quoting Brink Lindsey

The religions helped to get the ignorant to the polls.

SKURTZMAN

I was not addressing you. Go back and read my post.
READ it. I addressed white cane.

SKURTZMAN

While I am at it, I will address your points.

1)Keep your religions in your churches, mosques, synogogues and othe houses of worship.

No we won't - Christ commanded us to preach the gospel to all the earth. News flash- its called free speech, as long as i don't do it with govt money.

#3 - I don't assume that everyone or anyone will agree with me. I still will tell people about Christ.

5Also, please don't assume that only a religious person can be a good person; one can believe in the Golden Rule, and the Consitution, and what science has discovered about the world we inhabit, and how much alike all humans are.

Not sure where you are going here. God says no one is good, that all are sinners in His eyes, I know that. I also respect the constitution and , and yes, humans are alike , and I believe science and christianity complement one another.

6-The history of almost all religions is pretty scary; wars fought, country's and their cultures crushed, hate, fear and ignorance were often motivation for bringing "God to the heathens".

This is because human kind is selfish and self serving- does matter if they are religious or atheist(plenty of atheist govts that have killed millions, there bub) so it is not religion that caused it. It is mankind's selfish nature and greed and love of money and self.

7- Yep, everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint, and if you tell me not to tell you about Christ, I will walk away. What burr got up your behind about this one?
Lastly,

8- that is what christian do- and they do good, and they - not all "walk the talk".

The way you addressed me in your misplace post indicates you have an issue with Christians and Christianity. Sounds like you have not even given it a chance to see the truth of it.