Is the war making the world safer for Israel, America and their allies or more dangerous?
How many vistims in 11 September 2001 Tragedy?? How many victims in Iraq war?? What we have calculated that? Who more cruel between 11 September, 2001 tragedy dicision maker or Iraq war dicision maker? Thousands of people becoming victim in 11 Spetember, 2001 and tens of thousand people becoming victim in Iraq war,not give a dam adult or child. Remember, only in Iraq war, not including war location in all the world. All of people including USA military in Iraq only becoming policy victim. How if our child becoming victims? They were all only victims from stupid dicision about Iraq war. Have we realize that? Iraq war not war fight against terror, but vengeance war. Vengeance war from senior to not other. Where peoples heart and mind? Where the heart of makers of news? Only healthy sensible peoples which can comprehend this. And finally, I hope bigly role to all of medias can campaigning anti war. Terror is together our enemy, but not with dropping bomb to finish it.
March 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The awful truth is 9/11 was staged. Where is the Boeing 757-sized hole at the Pentagon? In fact, where is the Boeing 757? - http://i12.tinypic.com/6c7rm6t.jpg
Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Director U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project.
"When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile. And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile."
G.W. (Jerry) Longspaugh, MS Aerospace Engineering (1942 - 2006) – Retired Aerospace Engineer.
"The debris found outside the Pentagon is inconsistent with the impact of a Boeing 757 or any aircraft of comparable dimensions. In particular, in the absence of some agency (possibly unknown to physical science) that removed the wings, there is no way to avoid the conclusion that the wings (and therefore the aircraft) were never present in the first place. In this case, no Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon building on the morning of September 11, 2001."
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Retired commercial airline pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years.
"It’s roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile."
July 18, 2007 8:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Absolutely not. This administration needs to recognize the war in Iraq is a complete failure and mistake. There are more critical issues that affecting the lives of millions of americans and people world wide that our president is not taking actions against. Now the war has proven to be a failure and is causing more violence, terror and poverty in this world. According to the Borgen Project, it only takes $19 billion dollars annually to eradicate world hunger and poverty. However, our government has already spent more than $450 billion dollars over this fruitless war in Iraq. It is time for the Bush Administration to take a real interest in the lives of the American people as well as people who are in desperate needs around the world. Stop the lies and stop poverty now. Put away the arrogance and put the needs of the people before political gains.
July 12, 2007 10:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
August 4, 2006 3:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Come on guys the basic problem is :Too many European in Israel in the middle of Arabs.(Richard Cohen). .... They will fight for ever.
July 28, 2006 3:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I know what I'm about to say will go against the grain of almost every American, but not all problems have acceptable solutions. I firmly believe the Mid-East falls into this category.
There are only 3 possible outcomes. First, we live with the status quo and tolerate the violence. Second, the Israeli's wipe out the Arabs. Finally third, the Arabs wipe out the Israeli's. None of these outcomes are positive. Innocent people will die in large numbers no matter what outcome takes place.
To point fingers and blame and call one side terrorists (Arabs) and the other side victims of terrorism (Israel) does no one any service. It marginalizes the Arabs and portrays the Israeli's in a light they certainly haven't earned.
However, I do smile as I read the comments thinking a peace is possible. Hope against reason always brings a smile to my face. What saddens me are the comments on whose fault it is. There is enough fault to go around.
July 26, 2006 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
So let me get this straight, Israel wants the security council to invoke res. 1449 or whatever that says Hezbollah must disarm. But what about the resolution that say Israel should retreat to pre 1967 borders and give back that land to its rightful owners? Is that resolution not as legit? THAT is the reason Hezbollah is around anyways!
July 26, 2006 9:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
'Let's be realistic': You are right. There is much 'he started it' logic here, as well as ther bravado of the 'chicken-hawk' as we say in the US.
To return to the topic of the board: NO, this is not making anyone safer. These tactics have been tried in the Middle East, and elsewhere, many times in the past, and have always failed. Except when the goal was extermination, and it was successfuly reached.
So what is the solution? Seeing the failure of the current policies, something different. In my humble opinion, as things are today, (1) Establish a Palestinian state in all the Gaza & West Bank; (2) Compensate the Palestinians for the land from which they were evicted in 1948; (3) Return occupied land (even if 'annexed'); (4) Release all the prisoners, even the 'terrorists'; (5) Let Israel follow whatever policies it desires within the borders of Israel.
If, after this, there are those who want to engage in cross-border activities, they can be handled the way normal states handle these matters.
July 26, 2006 9:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
For all those of you who keep stating that the only way to end the war in the Middle East is by getting the Israelis out, stop dreaming. I am a Lebanese, and know that if "Belfour" never happened, THIS war would not be taking place. But it did, and Israel was formed. We cannot solve the current problem with what ifs, we also cannot solve the problem by entangling ourselves in a "who started it?" argument. If Hezbollah started it, okay, let's give you that (for sake of argument) does that justify the killing of hundreds of civilians?
What will the so-called civilized world do NOW, in the present, to stop the killing of civilians and the destruction of a nation?
And please, do not post the childish response ñ again ñ of: but they started it!! It will only remind me (and every parent out there) of a three year oldÖ
Everytime this question is asked, it is followed by a comment: But Hezbollah started it? Let's pretend we're adults for a minute, and deal with the CURRENT problem. If a stranger on the road hits you, and you kill a person who happened to be his negihbour, what does that make you?
July 26, 2006 9:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The U.S. Congress (both republican and democrats) are as guilty as Bush in making this world more dangerous. The gave Bush the authority to attack any country based on false pretenses; they funded the Iraq invasion, they have consistently failed to hold Bush's officials accountable for widespread violations of human rights.
Let's look at what happened in the last week:
- U.S. Congress overwhelmingly voted to support Israel's atrocities in Gaza and Lebanon.
- Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said: "The Israeli attacks and airstrikes are completely destroying Lebanon's infrastructure." "We call on the world to take quick stands to stop the Israeli aggression."
- U.S. senators and representatives demanded al-Maliki to apologize for his words against Israel. Otherwise, they said, al-Maliki will not be allowed to speak to Congress during his visit to the U.S.
IS THIS THE LAND OF FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION ?
IS THIS DEMOCRACY ?
THE KIND OF DEMOCRACY THE U.S. WANTS TO IMPOSE ON THE MIDDLE EAST ??
July 26, 2006 8:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Those that bombed UN's offices in Iraq were "bad, Islamist terrorists" .....but when the Israelis bomb UN forces that have been there for 25+ years and probably a fixture on Israeli war maps, but the Israelis are "allies".....helloooooooo!? Did I miss some thing?
July 26, 2006 7:42 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I think Bush administration provide increasing of hatred againts USA and its Allies(especially England and Israel)...Bush created hell in Iraq and now he support Israel's occupation in Lebanon ( The targets that Israel had attacked, are mostly civil...That is why USA became the most hatred country of the World....
July 26, 2006 5:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Not everyone should live by the US rules, i am sure the world existed way before the US was formed.
July 26, 2006 3:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
a microcosm of the "not working" qualities of the people in the middle east.
no project manager would allow the discussion that is occuring here to take over their meeting.
there is no discussion. no dialogue of a _real_ nature where the intent of the discussion is to arrive at solution.
there is only buttressing of opinions.
if I were in computers and one group were saying we need to back windows, and the other group said we need to back unix...
I would need real reasons to chose one over the other, and I would also need to include mixed networks, and the possibility of one becoming a better solution in 20 years....
or as another example: IF I were looking at energy or realestate as an investment or a managing project, there are very real things to consider
in the real world, emotions as a reason for doing something, always lead to poor conclusions.
and as far as conflict goes, the best conflict is always verbal, you don't have to repair anything when you're done...
I'm the one who wrote about the emotional age of the contestants being 3 years old, nothing that is written here disproves that. There are no "both side solutions," no _real_world_ solutions
no one in their right mind who remembers the bosnia-serbian crisis can honestly believe that these EXTREEMELY SIMPLE PEOPLES, the Arabic and Israeli peoples ever forget _any_ wrong done to them
it defines the Israeli mindset, "never forget," is their cry!
and what do they expect the Arabs to do? how stupid is that?
how likely is that when genocide is an African tradition? tribal problems, destroy the other tribe....it never goes away...eye for an eye...
these are really primitive low brow types, not intellectuals, not artists, in fact Iran is against the artist, intellectual types...
this is similar to Mao's Red Tide, or Hitlers or Mussolini's appeal to average/emotional types to do their works...
ah well, perhaps it's just as well that if people can't control themselves, that they are isolated.
July 26, 2006 12:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
that people from the middle east always see the world through
"me" colored glasses, as if that is perfectly reasonable. They must all be "three years old" emotionally, where everything is about me...
that includes the Israeli and Arabic factions....like slow monkeys waltzing with weapons....does it matter...perhaps they are too primitive to work with?
who cares....let the stupid people kill each other, then we can live in their houses, yes?
July 26, 2006 12:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I'dont know if is a coincidence that in the picture Yossi Melman from Israel saying that the war in Lebanon will bring peace looks just like that perfect killer guy in that Luck Besson film. scary!
July 25, 2006 10:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
is very sad to see that we are going backward, not just in the middle east but everywhere, there is no respect for human life, no common sence anywhere, is patetic how israel feel that because of the holocaust they have the right to kill others in such a disproportional rate, those acts will just create the conditions for hundreds of "osamas" to come out in the open and bring us all an even crazier future!, is that the kind of world we want our childrens to inherit from us!
July 25, 2006 10:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
At first glance, I couldn't believe this was a serious question.
'Bush World' is a total disaster.
1 Iraq war based on lies and a misguided belief 'democracy' in Iraq
would spread throughout the region. This is a convoluted version
of the 60s 'Dominio Theory'.
2 Afghanistan, where I believe we were right to go, is falling apart
because we bailed early to 'bring joy' to Iraq.
3 Iran is more powerful that ever before because their 'balance',
Iraq is destroyed.
4 Lebanon, after fighting its way back from oblivion and rebuilding
for 20 years is being destroyed because we did not live up to our
commitmant to them to help them strengthen their Army and civil
structures after they so bravely ejected the Syrians just about a
5 Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt etal are under crushing pressure and worsening instability thanks to all of the 'Big-Footing' of Bush.
6. Our borders are a joke.
7 An American President gropes annother world leader at the G8 Summit IN THE PUBLIC MEETING ROOM IN FRONT OF CAMERAS.
8 Our 'friends' think we are disgusting———-and in regards to our
'decider' they are right.
ARE WE SAFER??????????
July 25, 2006 10:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In my humble opinion, all conflicts (whether among individuals, groups, or nation-states) should be handled with what I refer to as the "T.R.U.T.H. or Consequences" doctrine, where the acronym "T.R.U.T.H." stands for Tolerance, Respect, Understanding, Trustworthiness, and Humility. The root cause of most (if not all) conflicts derives from the absence of Tolerance, Respect, and Understanding of one another, coupled with the absence of Trustworthiness and Humility in dealings with one another. In short, peaceful co-exisitence can never be achieved without the ultimate "T.R.U.T.H." —- namely, ALL parties preaching AND PRACTICING mutual Tolerance, Respect, Understanding, Trustworthiness, and Humility toward one another.
Lest anyone mistake this doctrine as mere pacifist naivete, this suggested set of principles includes a companion, and absolutley critical, additional component —- "CONSEQUENCES." Until that day comes when all nation-states and non-state organizations preach AND PRACTICE only the peaceful principles in the acronym "T.R.U.T.H.," the international community must be willing to unite in enforcing and imposing appropriate "CONSEQUENCES" (including appropriate force as necessary) on those who would violate the "T.R.U.T.H." principles.
Applying this "T.R.U.T.H. or Consequences" doctrine to the Middle East conflicts may be the ultimate test to this new approach to conflict resolution. But if successful —- as I know it can be —- it could become the method of choice to resolve conflicts around the globe to acheive a more sustainable and lasting path to peaceful co-exisitence.
Regarding the Middle East conflicts, the first essential step is for all to acknowledge that at various times, both Israel and the Arab World have committed terrible acts of violence against the "T.R.U.T.H." principles. At varying times, rather than the "T.R.U.T.H.," Israel AND Arab nations and organizations have all been guilty of inTolerance, disRespect, misUnderstanding, unTrustworthiness, and arrogance (lack of Humility) toward each other.
But we cannot turn back the clock and undo what has been done. We can only control what happens in the future. And for the sake of the innocent, precious children throughout the Middle East being born this very day, all parties must pledge themselves to pursue the "T.R.U.T.H." principles or realize that appropriate and forceful "Consequences" will be imposed upon them for violating those "T.R.U.T.H." principles.
A second essential step is for all to acknowledge that no Israeli child was born today hating or seeking the destruction of Palestinians or other Arabs or Muslims. Similarly, no Arab or Muslim child was born today hating or seeking the destruction of Isrealis. Regrettably, those emotions are taught or influenced by adults. And that cycle must end.
The third essential step is for all parties to acknowledge that to date each side has stated its case through words and actions, and those words and actions have failed —- and will continue to fail —- to acheive their objectives. Despite each side's failed attempts, their sworn enemy still exisits, and will continue to exist. Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Arab extremists must recognize that Israel's right to exist will always be defended by Israel and by the international community. So if Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Arab extremists don't renounce their proclamation to eradicate Israel —- or stated another way, if they do not begin to espouse and PRACTICE "T.R.U.T.H" (Tolerance, Respect, Understanding, Trustworthiness, and Humility) toward Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state, then the international community must be willing to impose appropriate and forceful "Consequences" on those violators of the "T.R.U.T.H." principles. Correspondingly, Israel must recognize the mutual right of the Palestinians to have their own state, and for Arabs and Muslims to enjoy a peaceful co-exisitence in Lebanon and other Arab nations. Stated another way, if Israel does not begin to espouse and PRACTICE "T.R.U.T.H." toward Palestinians to exist in their own state, and Arabs to live peacefully in other Arab nations, then the international community must be willing to impose appropriate and forceful "Consequences" on those violators of the "T.R.U.T.H." principles.
Given the historic anger, hatred, and distrust among the parties, it would be naive to think any mutual practice of "T.R.U.T.H." will happen soon. Indeed, we must also recognize that, barring extraordinary and unforeseen circumstances, the process will likely take one or more generations to complete. Essentially, it will take those innocent children who are born today —- who have not yet been taught to hate and to kill —- to somehow grow up freed from the hateful and destructive influence of their parents, to become tomorrow's leaders and advocates for peace.
But the process could commence today by Arab leaders publicly and vociferously denouncing Hamas, Hezbollah, and other extremist organization's stated objective to eradicate Israel. And Israel must reaffirm publicly and unequivocally that it is committed to co-exisitng beside a free Palestinian state and its neighboring Arab states, so long as Israel's right to co-exist is reciprocally respected. Israel, Eygpt, and Jordan have all demonstrated the ability to create such co-exisitence.
Once all parties recognize and proclaim each other's right to exist in peace, then the international community should hold an international summit —- with a corresponding committment from Arab television and Western television to broadcast the summit in full and uncensored, as well as on the internet, etc. —- for the world to see and participate in indentifying the obstacles to peace and exploring innovative ways to construct the paths to peaceful co-exisitence. Perhaps if the international community used available technology to initiate such a fair and uncensored forum to air grievances, those who believe they have been unjustly aggreived won't feel the need to resort to destructive violence to be heard.
Some will say this approach is naive. I admit the process will be slow and at time arduous. But I also say there's no other viable alternative. We must now commit ourselves to embark on a long, deliberate, and likely at times difficult journey to a time and place where peaceful co-existence can be acheived by all nations and people of all backgrounds demanding, adopting, preaching, AND PRACTICING a new international doctrine of "T.R.U.T.H. or Consequences."
July 25, 2006 10:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The whole world is now asking Who are the terrorists?
And now we see the might of the IDF showing they are the ones terrorizing millions of families, not thousands, and The USA is rushing new laser bombs and cluster bombs to kill even more civilians.
July 25, 2006 9:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The issue of Israel is by far the most commented in all newspapers of the world.
And the vast majority is against the daily crimes commited agaist the refugees palestineans.
July 25, 2006 9:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The world will be safer if Israel is relocated to the USA.(not here in NY, send it to Nevada or Montana).
Over 50 years of occupation didn't work and in the next 50 years will be the same. As long as Israel are not planning to use its nuclear weapons and start anothe world war.
July 25, 2006 9:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
shows why we have now a new AXIS, the axis of the invaders, the axis of the murderers, and guess who is in this new AXIS? USA and Israel.
July 25, 2006 8:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"WAR NEVER DETERMINES WHO WON, IT DETERMINES WHO IS LEFT". People never inquired how Hezbuallah was formed? It was formed when Israel(Israel is a US product) occupied Lebanon for 18 years, it was established in 1989. It is a product of occupation. Bin Laden, a US product, The adminstration cut off contact with him in 1997(negotiating the caspian sea pipe line). The civil war in Iraq, a US product. The US should look into their foreign policy and stop blaming others for their failures. I want to tell Americans how it felt during 9/11, it's been 9/11 in the Middle East ever since you have created the State of Israel in 1948.
July 25, 2006 6:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I agree the Hitler analogy is uncalled for in this instance. Something everyone has to come to grips with is the Arab world is united in it's hatred of Israel. If we put it to a vote today in the Arab world I'd not only bet heavily in favor of a vast majority of Arabs voting to dispose of Israel I'd give very generous odds on that outcome. Is it really unjustified behaviour? Obviously, there has been no historical love loss between the Muslims and the Christians/Jews for well over a thousand years. Add to this the taking of ones homeland and the occupation of other Arabs homelands and I'm not that convinced the Arabs are completely unjustified.
As far as the United States is concerned I think the old adage applies, "the friends of my enemies are my enemies." What have we done as a nation to lead them to believe we are not an enemy? Set up a puppet dictatorship in Iran with the Shah, continually support Israel with money and weapons and invade Iraq twice. I don't think the Arab world views us as either their friend or a neutral country so the Iranian leader isn't as whacko in his comments about the United States as they might seem.
July 25, 2006 6:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
MD: Are there good killings, or bad killings of innocents? This kind of logic is the root of the problems, which sadly is advocated by current US foreign policy.
July 25, 2006 5:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hitler Parallel: It is outrageous to equate what Hitler did to what is going on in Lebanon. If you want to equate anyone to Hitler look at the intentions of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He has repeatedly stated his intentions to wipe Israel off the map. He also has made it clear that he does not intend to stop with Israel and would love to get rid of the United States and any other countries he feels like. Israel is going into Lebanon to defend its people from terrorists. Hitler killed Jews for no reason at all, other than a blinding unjustifiable hatred for them. Jhyamo that parallel was really comical.
July 25, 2006 5:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
history repeats itself ..... sounds trite. i thought so, and sorry for the reintroduction of history101. looking at the events in the middle east today ..... one cannot help but remember this contrite remark. in all honesty, israel is doing to citizens of beirut what hitler did to the polish and german jews. in the name of security for its own people it is obliterating the lebanese from the face of the middle east.
July 25, 2006 4:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"This war is creating more enemies, and more hatred towards Israel, America and their allies, and anyone who, by 1) either their inaction or 2) their support on the Israeli invasion of Lebanon - is basically supporting the killing of hundreds of civilian, a third of them children, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians."
What about the 1) inaction or 2) support of the Hezbollah movement against Israel? Israel did not start this war, and Lebanon did not prevent it.
July 25, 2006 4:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The only way to achieve peace in mideast is to move Israel out of there. Its creation was a mistake that both sides have paid dearly for close to the past 60 years. How much more dying does it take for the world to realize that???????
July 25, 2006 4:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
H.E. Koke: Israel is an aggressor??????? What exactly constitutes an agressor in your eyes. Israel has only responded to terrorist attacks from both Hamas and Hezbollah. How exactly does that make her or him, or however you want to refer to Israel, the aggressor? Moreover, Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Palestinians live in Israel free to practice whatver religion they desire and with all other civil liberties intact. Israelis do not challenge the right for Palestinians to exist, whereas Hamas refuses to recognize Israel. Israel has no problem living side by side Palestine in a two-state solution, but Hamas would not even dream of a world in which the two states co-exist. Before you make outlandish comments, think who is the real agressor, Israel (for democracy and civil liberties for all its inhabitants) or Hamas (terrorists) and Hezbollah (terrorists). Your rhetoric actually makes you sound pro-terrorist.
July 25, 2006 4:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
is creating more enemies, and more hatred towards Israel, America and their allies, and anyone who, by 1) either their inaction or 2) their support on the Israeli invasion of Lebanon - is basically supporting the killing of hundreds of civilian, a third of them children, and the displacement of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
The kidnapping of two soldiers does not justify the killing of hundreds of civilians, the killing of 30 Israelis (more than HALF, non-civilians), does not justify the killing of over a hundred children, the killing of several Hezbollah militias does not justify the destruction of a nation.
You are watching the birth of resentment and hate of a new generation. It is not the "brainwashing" of the Hezbollah militia that is creating more "terrorist" but the killing of innocent people by the Israeli Military. In the future, Hezbollah will not need to recruit any new members, the Israeli government is doing that for them.
July 25, 2006 4:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
To start a possibility of starting with a peace proces:
1- Peace force in south Libanon
2 -Peace force in the by Isreal occupied Palestinianland. The Palastinian problem has to be solved immediately and it is the only chance to prevent killing more innocent Palestianians This is a must
3- Israel has to know it is an aggressor. So she has to pay for everything she has distructed since july 1 2006.
July 25, 2006 3:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
ATs (arab terrorists) hide in Gaza; Israels bulldozes Gaza;
ATs hide in Lebanon; Israel bombs Lebanon;
ATs hide in Syria...
ATs hide in Jordan...
ATs hide in Iraq...
ATs hide in Iran... what will Israel do?
secondary effects (colateral damage, as the military put it):
- innocent civilians killed
- infrastructure destroyed
- new generation of ATs created
- U.S. prestige and influence in tatters
- moderate governments in the Middle East destroyed
- Iran's nuclear threat forgotten
- North Korea's nuclear threat forgotten
- Iraq mess forgotten
- global trade talks killed
- Russia's autocracy strenghtened
- gas prices at record levels
- Bush cronies richer than ever
Sure. THAT is a safer world!!!
July 25, 2006 3:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Iran is funding Hezbollah now. Which terrorist group will they use as a pawn next, and where? People need to take Iran as a serious threat or a number of nations may be caught unpleasantly offguard. Iran is using Hezbollah not only as a means of attacking Israel, but also to divert attention away from its nuclear ambitions. People can't just forget about Iran. They are a threat to Israel, the U.S. and beyond.
July 25, 2006 2:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
More wanton destruction of Arabs countenanced and even encouraged by the US Government (if you can call the bush administration a government) = more terrorists and more instability throughout the world. The central question is whether there will be anything left to save if the bush mis-administration remains in power until January, 2009.
July 25, 2006 2:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
We obviously disagree on what is 'defense'.
July 25, 2006 2:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Vienna, VA: If it were as easy as good builds, evil destroys, then we wouldn't have any conflicts, ever. I am not advocating for the deaths of civilians. However, you are letting strong pictures cloud your overall perception of the issue. You are failing to realize that Israel would undoubtedly like to avoid hitting Lebanese civilians if at all possible. However, Hezbollah terrorists hide amongst Lebanese civilians while they shoot off rockets toward Israel. Israel has been left with no choice but to act in self-defense, a response it owes to its people. Israel cannot agree to a ceasefire because if it does not take care of Hezbollah now, there will always be an ongoing threat. Given these circumstances Israel is not overstepping its bounds in reacting to Hezbollah, and if the United States was similarly attacked it to would have a ride to defend its people, and I have no doubt that it would.
July 25, 2006 2:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Michael Reiter: The picture is filled with the dead & maimed. And it is crowded with the destroyed infrastructure. There is always room for the big picture, but not at the expense of people. My big picture is that the purpose of life is to live. A simplistic version is 'Good builds; Evil destroys'.
July 25, 2006 1:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Michael Reiter: The picture is filled withthe dead & maimed. And it si crowded with the destroyed infrastructure. There is always room for the big picture, but not at the expense of people. My big picture is that the purpose of life is to live. A simplistic version is 'Good builds; Evil destroys'.
July 25, 2006 1:28 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel has not occupied Lebanon for the last six year. In fact, it pulled out in order to achieve peace. Israel had no desire to reenter Lebanon, but Hezbollah terrorists changed that. People need to understand the fact that Israel did not start this war and has a responsibility to defend its people. Furthermore, Hezbollah, and on a greater scale Iran, pose a much larger threat than Israel. Iran, who funds Hezbollah, and countless other terrorist groups, would love to see Israel wiped off the map, along with the United States, and there is no telling who is next on their agenda. If you have trouble sympathizing with Israel, at least look at the bigger picture.
July 25, 2006 12:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel has not seen peace since it's creation,part of it by terrorism and it knows it is not going to see peace now.The military atmosphere is what israel dwells on because it guarantees the flow of american tax payers' money.It's appetite for violence and bloodshed,wanton disregard for human lives and the ability to con the world(especially the west)that it is the victim here even though four times more civilians are killed by israel's superior firepower,is guaranteed to keep it's military industrial economy booming.Anyone who thinks this will make us any more safer (a la bush) or asks the foolish cliche question of 'why do they hate us' ought to be tied to a light pole in beirut awaiting an american-made cluster bomb from an american-made f-16.Let's also not forget that israel is an occuping power that has the palestinians stacked into a tin can(the most congested per sq mile in the world),diverted their rivers for their own consumption and gets away with gross human rights violation and still talks about peace.I we do not condemn this kind of arrogance,beligerence and land hungry maurading we should then sit back and prepare for blowback.We are tired of dying getting kidnapped and paying high prices at home because of israel.Yes israel has tons of money friends here,they should move there and take their neo-madnes with them.
July 25, 2006 12:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It looks like the war was not started a couple of weeks ago. It has long been there.
July 25, 2006 11:49 AM | Report Offensive Comments
>>Israel did not start this war and would love to live peacefully beside Lebanon. <<
Is it true that "Israel's air, land and sea incursions into Lebanese territory, which have occurred nearly every day since its withdraw from South Lebanon in 2000" (from the Daily Star editorial)?
July 25, 2006 11:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Why all the discussion? Israel is merely executing the plan written by Paul Wolfowitz and Perle and given to Netahyahoo. Using American blood and treasure invade Iraq, next Syria then Iran. Leave the mid east and it's oil and lovely land to the Israelis. When the Iraqi disaster left Americans unwilling to go further, the boys had to go another slightly different route meant for later....put in place their 'Kill Lebanon' plan...then onto
Syria, et al. They're getting their way. Except maybe the ground invasion isn't going so well...
July 25, 2006 11:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Me, paranoid?! Who wants to know?
Like a number of others, I regard the current unpleasantness in Lebanon as a distraction on the part of the Iranians.
The questions that trouble me are:
What is it a distraction from, precisely?
Why the insistence on the date, 8/22? Is that a code for their operatives around the world?
Is their "answer" to the UN going to be a bigger version of 9/11?
Is their president as big a loon as he appears to be?
Are the Iranians further along with their nuclear capabilities than our "intelligence" supposes?
How long before the world wakes up to the fact that Islamic fascism is behind all the ruckus? ("Mean old Israel — why won't they just lie back and take it? I remember the good old days, when we could gas them with impunity.")
July 25, 2006 10:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
July 25, 2006 10:53 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The question is an oxymoron. Destroying Lebanon to destroy Hezbollah is a futile undertaking. This campaign of "draining the swamp" will no longer work. Israel has committed atrocities against the Palestinians who rightfully are angry & want to seek revenge. The sooner we accept that Israel is not a "victim" & could be an aggressor too, the better our thinking processes will be. Bush, Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld & the neocons do not have the brains, judgement, experience and know-how to effect a change in the Middle East. These people have exacerbated the conflicts with the invasion of Iraq & their continued blustery talk. You ask about "Safer" when "safe" would suffice.
July 25, 2006 10:35 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Israel did not start this war and would love to live peacefully beside Lebanon. That cannot happen however, as long as Israel continues to live under the Hezbollah terrorist threat. If Israel were to agree to a ceasefire right now that threat would still be looming over its head. Hezbollah's actions have given Israel the legitimate right, the same right America or any other nation would have if it were attacked, to deal with the problem. And that's what they're doing. Furthermore, Hezbollah is funded by Iran who not only poses a threat to Israel, but to the United States and countless other nations. In order to weaken Iran it is important to stop Hezbollah, as it is being used not only as an Iranian pawn for terror, but also as a distraction from the Iranian efforts to gain nuclear capabilities.
July 25, 2006 10:15 AM | Report Offensive Comments
No this war will not make Israel or the US any safer. Just as Israel's 1982 invasion and occupation of Lebanon created a whole generation of terrorists (and sparked the formation of Hezbollah), so too will their destructionn of the only functioning Arab democracy in the region create a new generation that hates Israel and the US. Rice and Bush argue that we should not stop the killing because only more killing can create a long-term peace ("We don't want a short-term cease fire, but instead will work for a lasting peace"). This is very much akin to saying "war is peace" and "ignorance is strength". Paging Dr. Orwell anyone? Obviously violence only begets violence. Does any rational person think that the millions of Lebanese who have had their homes destroyed and their loved ones killed by Israelis, using American weapons, will suddenly decide they no longer hate us? I would like to see the President, just once in his 8 years in office, attempt to talk to a group that he disagrees with (diplomacy) rather than blow them to pieces.
July 25, 2006 10:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Just to remind you there are two wars now in the middle east, and both are making both Israel and the US less secure. Even if Israel and the US found and killed every single so-called terrorist, does anyone think for a second they wouldn't reappear? For every one you kill, 100 more will pop up. It's like a physician who decides to operate and surgically remove all of the cancer cells in a patient with metastatic disease. Sure you can kill the cancer, but you also kill the patient. By mulitiplying the number of terrorists in their militarily excessive actions in Irag and Lebanon, we are killing the countries we are trying to help. We are destroying the countries and turning those who survive against us, not to mention the rest of the world.
Bush has taken moral clarity to an extreme, to the point whereby it becomes a vice. It has reached the point where he refuses to talk to certain key players he deems evil. And he won't relent the war efforts until a perfect solution is found. If the perfect solution can't be implemented, it's better to allow innocents die!! Most people of the world understand this is lunacy.
THere will always be evil people with whom we must communicate. And there will never be a perfect solution. Politics is about amelioration and compromize. Not about perfection. This is the reality of the practical world that the ancients knew, and people who bother to read books know, which Bush did not do.
The current problems in the middle east are not military issues. THey are political. And the more we confuse the two, the more insecure the US and the world will become.
July 25, 2006 9:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, perhaps all the mayhem there is a good thing: It pushed Iraq off the front page. Apparently our press is more concerned about Israeli casualties in Lebabnon than US casualties in Iraq. Not to mention that Iraq is getting worse.
So, there is a silver lining to this storm afterall (for Bush/Rice/etc.)
July 25, 2006 9:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Absolutely NOT. There is no way. Violence begets violence. Israel has crossed a line here and become the very thing they have fought. This is nothing short of mass murder in lebanon aided by the US govt. position helping Israel. No excuse is valid in my opinion and no one could ever justify the Israeli response to me not the US position. This is creating more terrorists than it is getting rid of. It is creating more exponantially. Safer?? joking right?? try much more dangerous for all of us.
July 25, 2006 9:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It funny, after a fairly good nights sleep, I awoke and not one Katusha Rocket had slammed into my neighborhood. No one died, there was no damage, and the population of Pensacola wasn't huddled in bomb shelters. Think about that for a while...
My specialty is Iran, their armaments, and for years I have been keeping an eye on them - as I believe they are the true threat in the Middle-East. Many of my past articles have born out this point. Iraq, total crap, but Iran is a different matter.
Anyone notice the difference in Syria now stating that if Israel gets "too close" they will also get involved? THAT is an about-face, and we have to ask why - as for all practical purposes, for now Syria is not under the threat of bombing or invasion. It almost appears that Syria, via Iran's support, is attempting to escalate the situation beyond the limited conflict we are witnessing right now. I have to ask myself why, as Syria is the most vulnerable - and does not have the defense capabilities of Iran. To me it appears as if Israel and the US are being "baited" - to what end I'm not sure of, as any retaliation against Syria could be devastating to Syria itself.
Do I support Israel? Without question, I have seen them withdraw, and in many cases were attempting to implement the "Roadmap to Peace." To have Hezbollah enter their sovereign territory, without provocation, and kill three soldiers and kidnap two others was seriously provocative and they knew it would draw a serious response. In the matter of them being able to protect their citizens, to stop the cause of these new and better rockets from terrorizing the Israeli population, yes, I support them completely.
As I said above, there aren't any rockets falling in my neighborhood, but if there were, the US response would be strong - perhaps even stronger than that of Israel. Lebanon never held-up their part of the UN Resolution to secure the border - as their government has been successfully hijacked by Hezbollah and the southern border is used as a launching site against Israel. Was Israel's response "over-the-top"??? Yes, to a degree, although I am uncertain how to get at an enemy that makes it blend-in with the populace. I'm sure I have no better idea of how to handle that part of the conflict than anyone else - but I do believe that Hezbollah must be stopped in their tracks.
No, I haven't turned into a Bush supporter; In fact, this escalation in the Middle-East is a direct result of his failed policies and provocations in that area, and surely magnifies the necessity to get this nut-job out of office before the whole damn area goes up in flames. The Left-Behind crowd is almost in orgasmic bliss, seeing this as a sign of the "End of Times" which by their stupidity, are helping to instigate and add fuel to the fire. History is rife with the bodies of those who believed as they did - yet they never learn a lesson, and our far-right Christian Evangelicals are sounding more like Radical Islam everyday!
Yeah, this is a topic that needs serious discussion - although at this point, it appears that all we can do is speculate, as Bush once again has the heat off of him due to the possible beginning of another war. My, my, how convenient for Bush and his band of warmongers - and who would have ever though it?????
July 25, 2006 9:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes, Israel and the U.S. are doing the right thing.
Why should Israel give back anything they occupied? They are stronger and have backing from an even stronger U.S. Heck, I say take what you can, while the cash is flowing. I feel like a little kid in a candy store again.
Bombing those lebanese is the only way to go. It will help "win hearts and minds" of the lebanese and subsequently all Muslim people (oh wait that was Bush's quote oops. Well Olmert agrees).
After all is said and done the entire middle east will be scared and embrace Israel. Muslims will realize that Israelis are their friends and just want to help root out 'terror' thats all.
Then and only then can Israel regroup and bomb the crap out of Syria. Then the Syrians will love and embrace them. I know EXACLY what Bush and Olmert are thinking. Brilliance. And we elected these leaders, pat yourselves on the back.
This is a joke. All of this. The entire Israeli/US policy in the middle east. Can't wait to help my child many years from now when he has questions about this time period and why America the great had become so evil.
July 25, 2006 8:23 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Let us rejoice. UK and USA have collectively committed to pay USD39m to the Lebanese cause of 1 million families that have lost their homes. That is a whopping 39 Dollars per head! They lost their house, job, belongings.....but they are getting a pair of shoes!...or all 1 million can get together and buy an apartment in New York.......
The entire pledged sum is a mere $ 200m, or $200 per head. Shameful what has happened to the world and its sense of charity.
July 25, 2006 8:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I think the answer to the question has already been communicated by Mr. Eugene Robinson in Washington POst today. It is perhaps the best analysis of the situation that has been printed in any newspaper since these atrocities began. Israel is the biggest threat to world security and these actions in Lebanon only reinforces the idea and USA only stands shoulder to shoulder in this carnage. What USA and Israel dont seem to understand is that there is almost a billion population of muslims in the world and majority of them live in their own muslim majority countries where the local media is portraying Israel and USA as the greatest enemies of Islam. Analysts and commentators show and comment on bloody children and dead bodies as open warfare and wherever Israel is mentioned, USA is also in the same breath. AlQaeda (if it exists at all) uses the antiUSA and Israel sentiments to recruit fresh blood from all corners of the globe and believe me even educated and professional muslim men and women are joining the ranks of AlQaeda and Hizbullah supporters. Even Ms. Rice's smirks and smiles yesterday on national television in her meetings with Lebanon officials were seen as a satisfaction on the progress of civilian cleansing by Israeli army so far. USA and Israel are making matters worse and they are making Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah an icon in the Islamic world. Even the Europeans are not in line with USA's wishes. All the tourists going back from Lebanon are not going to portray Israel as a peace loving country.
July 25, 2006 4:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The only thing that i've learned from all this stuff is that the press is as bought as the congress. And i do mean bought, not this "gosh we were misled" tripe.
July 25, 2006 12:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
clash of cultures, then discuss and demonstrate that...
we have ethnic groups seperated within the United States, although they call it racial here....even though visually there is not a real difference....
like what race are puerto ricans, or brazilians?
July 24, 2006 11:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I don't think anyone is ignoring the primitive nature of the contestants.
I think that _should_ _be_ discussed openly. I also think that Israel is not exactly the best example of an enlightened theorcracy, nor do I think religious states should exist as governing agencies.
I think both sides should be exposed for being ethnocentric "bible" thumpers.......and force them to examine that as their right to be
we should openly discuss the "right," of muslims to fight holy wars, and discuss whether that makes _all_ of them untrustworthy....
is the word of the "prophet," untouchable, or is it like the word of the pope, simply the word of a man using gawd to whip his people?
July 24, 2006 10:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The only way there can be peace in ME is by wholesale settlement of ALL territorial disputes all at once. All Arab states have requested this but Israel has refused prefering to whine.
Unless the western word forces Israel to agree, we will never be free of terrorism. Given there is a direct cost to western nations (terrorism and economic costs) they have every right to ask this of Israel.
Of course Israel and her friends fight tooth and nail and spin all sorts of lies and skirt this issue. They think terrorism works to their benefit, and that eventually they will be abe to bring about a global war between muslims and the west and solve their problems that way. I say they are wrong.
July 24, 2006 9:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If war brought peace in the Middle East, we would have certainly seen peace by now. I do not believe peace will be achieved by attacking Lebanon. What will be achieved is verification that the only possible avenue for muslim nations is to revert to terrorism where they have a certain advantage because they don't fear death and are willing to lay their lives on the line for their cause. Perhaps we could move Isreal to Texas and let W be our ambassador o the new nation of Isreal once his tour as prez is up.
July 24, 2006 9:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The solutions become far more difficult now that the U.S. has demonstrated to the world it's inability to support Lebanon's democratic government.
Once again we have made promises and abandoned our friends.
Must have been an interesting meeting with Secty Rice!!!
July 24, 2006 8:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes it is becoming more dangerous not only for Israel and America but for the whole world peace. If we probe the causes of anti american sentiments, the major cause which comes to our notice firstly, is the US blind support to Israel. Secondly, US perception regarding democracy out of America. US has its own perception about democracy i.e. the government of its choice favouring US interests-whenever where ever the dictatorship is favourable to US, it support it and where ever the democracy pervails but not as per interests of US, it do not support it and tries to topple the democratic set up. The latest major examples are Egypt and Hamas governments. These double standards of democracy has created the sence of deprivation among the people and when we try to suppress them through aggressive policy, it culminate the sentiments against US governments. It is natural phenomenon that voilence erupts from the bed of aggression. The battle among the scattered unarmed stone throwers and the missle equipped soldiers can not justify the peace efforts. To achieve real peace it would be more appropriate that the real owners of the land may be given their cake. Do not let Israel become cancer to america and the world. Peace efforts must be done timely to curb the anti-american sentiments.
July 24, 2006 7:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Very culture centric dialogue going on here. I grew up in the Middle East. Years in Libya and Kuwait as a child. War is a terrible thing, but it shapes all our history and reflects that the most determined and/or technologically advanced cultures win out. (Read "Guns, Germs and Steel" before you react.) As a man whose childhood was lived in ME and North Africa, I caution all of you who think Israel is to blame to examine the cultural and historic differences between the Islamic culture and the West. They are very different. You would not want the situation to be reversed, with the Middle Eastern nations superior to us Westerners in wealth or technology. I promise you would not like to live in that world. So, yes, these things are painful and terrible to watch, but better there than here. This is a clash of cultures. Israel is our ally. I am amazed at how much like Neville Chamberlain many of these posters sound.
July 24, 2006 6:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It is a truism that you can win a confict by creating more enemies than you started with. It seems undeniable that we have created more enemies during the "war on terror" then we started with. The only thing that will make the US and Israel more secure is a comprehensive peace in the region. All partial agreements are held hostage to the unresolved issues.
The idea that those fighting for self-determination in the territories should quit fightng and then they will get what they want seems strange to me. I don't really believe that Isreal wants a negotiated solution—that would require a divided Jerusalem, nothing else will be acceptable to the Palestinians nor the 1 billion Muslims in the world. The Saudi plan of a few years back offered peace and economic cooperation with all of the regional states with Israel's return to the 1967 borders. It didn't get a second look from Bush and Sharon.? Iran also offered a comprehensive settlement in 2003, it also was rejected out of hand. For the Palistinians "no justice, no peace" is the bottom line. The Israeli's argue "no peace, no justice". One thing is clear, no negotiations leads to more deaths on both sides and more hatred for the US which leads to more potential terrorists.
July 24, 2006 6:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
you want to actually have a chance at solving things?
arrest the Executive Branch of the United States government. Try them for treason, apologize to the world....and from that position talk about _what_ solutions can be found.
you can't have a duplicitous government representing truth, justice and liberty and being accepted at face value....do you trust the wolf to guard your sheep?
by-the-by, I'm not letting the muslims off the hook....primitive, murdering, selfish, tribal-interests...we are special and allah favors us with victory if we fight! sure he does, sure he does...just like gawd loves george bush because he's honest
neither am I letting the paranoid, "it's all about me and my frigging phobias" jews off the hooks.........see an analyst and stop hurting people!
July 24, 2006 6:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
swords, plowshares, you know the old story, it hasn't changed much for today, either.
Ms Rice is now holding the civilian population hostage to a yet unannounced plan to put the cart before the horse, or in other words, put disarmament first before the shooting stops, and, in the meantime, let the lebanese civilian population be subject to a blitz of the 5000 lb. bombs that she is rushing to the theatre of operations. Her slogan, is "Bomb fast, peace slow."
July 24, 2006 5:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/perry.tyre/index.html, shows why we have now a new AXIS, the axis of the invaders, the axis of the murderers, and guess who is in this new AXIS? USA and Israel.
July 24, 2006 5:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Whoever said this Administration is not an "honest" broker in the ME does not know a hell of beans. Condi Rice promised to give the Lebanese PM $30 million to rebuild war torn Beirut and several hundred smart bombs [that can distingush between Hezbolla civilians and Lebanese civilains]to the Isreal express delivery to finish off Hezbollah and pretty much all of South Lebanon.
Ms Rice told Lebanese officials to comply with Israel's demands ASAP or GWB will be sending more smart bombs to the Israelis for them to defend themselves from the Hezbollah tanks, missiles and helicopters.
Wonder why those strange people in the Middle East hate us so much?
July 24, 2006 5:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
For 50 years Arabs and Israelis have been doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results. How foolish!
July 24, 2006 4:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If I attempt vengance on a neighborhood I know harbors criminals, then I am a vigilante. Just as I have to work within the system and law enforcement procedures, the world must work within the procedures of the UN. Calling the UN "innefective" and "leftists" every time a nation doesn't like what they have to say has put the world in a terrible situation. Unfortunately there is no means of enforcing UN procedures for bringing peace
July 24, 2006 4:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
is pretty self evident,
"and you shall know them by their works."
and how has religion worked for people? how has it not worked? at what point does religion become an impediment?
IF we were to examine the history of the Roman Catholic church would we find an alignment with the tenets of gawd, or an alignment of using the word gawd as a tool of the power hungry?
and the muslim "religion" or coda was formed out of a dream by a "prophet," who was a general and just happened to include rules about using combat to obtain wealth? that's convenient.
examination, does a lot towards explaining motives....I suggest to do that publically, rather than being afraid of the primitives getting stirred up....let them face their own stupidity....I believe right now is a pregnant time...people might be more willing to if the Israeli people were examined simultaneously....you'll note I've called both "sides" primitives...
dualistic religions christian/judaea/muslim primitive belief-based systems
that's why christians are fighting against science and with the current administrations help making some headway....maybe the inquisition is next?
and how does the pope feel about condoms in aids ridden countries?
July 24, 2006 3:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Democracy at the barrell of Bush's gun-Some countries don't want westernization or a blown-up name like democracy. Bush's energy policy has America and Israel at risk. Would Bush be going through all of this if oil wasn't the issue?
July 24, 2006 3:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
to the challenge.
I don't have to support anyones _need_ _to_ "believe." It has nothing to do with government....
perhaps freedom to believe has something to do with rights of a citizen, but the right to inflict them on me is quite another thing.
Where do you stand on indigneous populations and their beliefs?
Why are the Muslims less prone to being educated than United States Crackers? or are they the same thing
Just because they're childlike doesn't mean that they shouldn't be educated.......
I have some muslim friends. I have some Tibetan friends. I have friends from all nationalities and I used to work in Washington DC. I also know that enculturement, is a delusion, not something you have to work with as a fact. There are ways.
I was just watching an Indian/Pakistani movie last night called EARTH by Deepa Mehta, that is doing a very good job of showing the horrors of chosing sides.
ps. _you_ can't embarass me, I say "rough" things in order to get to the "rough" people, I'm not interested in wasting my time with scholars as they know less than they think they do....they do not change history...and they certainly don't offer unique solutions. Is "Territorial Imperative" important here? Then I would say that, I would compare these peoples behaviours, Israels and Muslims to say the common ferret, why bother dressing it up?
as far as Pascals last statement, you want to experience gawd, come see me....I don't believe in theories....I'm all about experience...and he found his gawd in numbers and geometics...implicit order/david bohm
buddhism, mystic experiences allow you to experience the state of union without some priest hanging around exhorting you to kill someone
rumi, kabir, buddhas diamond sutra, wovoka,
nothing takes the air out of a priest more than being examined...I'd start with Rome and ask the people to see if "religion," made the world a better place to live in....
July 24, 2006 2:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Of course it has not made us safer! How could anybody determine that at this point? I believe it has only just begun. Bush has opened up a monumental can of worms in Iraq and made Iran ever more powerful. Is this what our soldiers died for? Is this why we were sold a bill of goods by this President? Every terror state and hostile country has become more armed and powerful under Bush's watch. What an arrogant buffoon, our President is. What ever made him think that middle eastern countries would want to be more like us Americans? We have many intelligent, learned, diverse people in this country. Why wouldn't he listen to any of them? He will have to live with this folly forever. Unfortunately, so do all our military and the rest of us.
July 24, 2006 2:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I wonder what all these critics of Israel would say if their country was under constant attack by organizations and states aiming to destroy it. Israel has no choice but to defend its citizens, prevent attacks on its cities. The present campaign is meant to severely limit Hizbollah's capacity for striking at Israel. Its aim is to distance Hizbollah from the border and have the conditions enforced of the agreement made in 2000 when Israel withdrew from Lebanon.
However behind the present Hizbollah campaign and in fact the major terror player in the Middle East is Iran. Iran 's President speaks incessantly about his goal of destroying Israel. Iran has also for twenty years been deceiving the world in regard to its nuclear program, and is on the verge of acquiring a capacity which puts not only Israel but the energy sources of the world in danger.
July 24, 2006 2:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I see appeal to emotion is the main tool that you use...
you don't take sides do you?
ask yourself this question, do you solve a problem or point out a problem...
if you showed up on my project team with a problem with no solution, you'd be fired....
I suggest you treat a solution as a _real_ world option and less as a child whining about inequities...that will never get fixed.
move beyond your personal predjudice.
July 24, 2006 2:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In reponse to whatever drafted the "dear stupid religious freak" comment
Since this string is pretty much history and the authors of the blog have mover onto other pressing issues like what I would do If I were the mediator on the mess in the middle east, this is probably irrelevant to the point of being vetigial.
Your response absolutely validate's everyman's point. From what was said, Everyman is not a religious freak, but just pointing out that the administration's short sighted (dare I say dimwitted) responses reflect the kind of emotional thinking reflected in your response. Our policies and your comments reflect a woeful understanding of an very serious cultural issue. That misunderstanding could kill us.
You may call it mythology, but a. to the Muslims it is not, and b. do you have a personal line of communication with some deity to show that that or any other "mythology" of any major faith is wrong.
Not a new dilemma. Pascal's comments are appropriate. (I'll try to keep it short and paraphrased)"I have a choice of believing in God or not. If I don't believe and there is nothing more than this existance I have lost nothing. However, if there is a God and I do not believe, I will suffer eternal damnation. Therefore, I believe in God." At that point, my "b" phase of my question in the last paragraph applies.
July 24, 2006 2:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
People, people. its really quite simple. Once the flag of the US and Israel are combined into THE STAR OF DAVID OVER THE RED AND WHITE STRIPES OF OLD GLORY then the whole world will bow down before the righteous.
There will be peace and propserity because the whole world will
know what will happen to any of them if they do not behave the way IUSA dictates.
The whole world is looking for the one flag that will bring about security and peace for all.
July 24, 2006 2:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I have been reading all the views in this forum with great interest .
There is no doubt that Middle East has been a great pain in the butt for entire USA and western world for last couple of decades .
But we have to go to root cause of the conflict . This conlict in the Middle East is all about control of oil and gas reserves .In other words oil is reponsible for all the problems .
United States, with the help of immense scientific talent and resources , should fund reserch for finding energy alternatives other than oil . NSF (National Science Foundation) and other leading science organisations should seek to harness their talents for coming up with other alternative energy solutions . Not long ago Governor of Minnesota wrote an article about producing energy form soya beans .
Finding alternatives to oil will help USA and other countries to reduce their dependence on oil from the psychotic and autocratic Arab regimes .
July 24, 2006 2:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
sir,what I want to say may not please some, but the truth lies in the origin of islam.what is islam all about?there are horrific scenes and stories of islam.none the less, omitting these evils, the religion is great.the problem is that muslim world doesn't want to change the evils in it, due to which the goodness of the religion is spoiled.i am a hindu from india, but in hinduism we have and are still omitting the bad aspects, like casteism, sati practices etc.etc.but in islam, they donot even imagine anything,any existence, except islam, and that is bad.mind you, and take my word, any violence, where-ever it starts in the world(look into history or anything), starts from the muslim community.later it takes the form of riots, war or whatever.but this world doesn't seem to recognise the triggering factor,but blows up the post-factors like riots or wars.it is because either we are too biased or live in too much fear of islam.
somebody from the muslim community will have to take an initiative to remove the evils in it like 'no right of existence of non-islamists', the theory of 'an eye for an eye' etc.etc.it breeds violence and also makes them look pre-historic .all speak bad about israel,uk etc.,but do they mind deploring the triggering factors like 'adventurous' kidnapping of the israeli soldiers?
they just bombed the twin-towers in usa, because the usa did nothing to support palestine,afghanistan,lebanon, and its mid-east asian policy ! what a farce ! it is as if we bomb a neighbour because they are not solving our family matters !!the same we are facing in india.
everything is because of kashmir?no.
yes, definitely usa and uk and israel will never be safe, whatever they do.even if usa or israel help lebanon or even hizbulla or hamas, they will never be safe.
i am sorry if i offend anybody, but the facts are facts and will remain fact.
July 24, 2006 2:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The "war", is now "wars", and in my opinion, the answer, at least in the near-term, is "more dangerous".
Israel is justified in its use of force against Hezbollah and Hamas. Put in street terms, "do something that stupid and you deserve to get your face pounded", e.g., both Hezbollah and Hamas used kidnap as a way to drive a thorn into Israel's side. There was no need for that - it was sheer bloody-mindedness.
The US administration probably views this conflict as heaven-sent because it does not have to risk its military at all. Like the Cold War, this is now a proxy battle with Iran and Syria.
The Iraq war, in retrospect, appears to be an incredibly stupid mistake. Iraq under Hussein, as vile as that regime was, kept Iran and Syria in check - especially Iran. With chaos in Iraq, that counter is gone with the wind for the forseeable future. Hence, Hezbollah feels free to attack Israel, and Hamas..well, the Palestinians certainly either got more than they voted for, or exactly what they voted for.
July 24, 2006 2:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
how about addressing my comment about the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX and tell us who you work for, as well as the crap _you_ push...
or is that too much like being examined for your motives?
July 24, 2006 2:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Allah is not in control of jack, neither is Yaweh, Jehovah or Jesus...
anyone that uses a name of the creator is ignoring their own ability to make earth either a heaven or a hell...
grown ups do not need comic books to justify their actions.
mythology is just that, because it's _your_ mythology doesn't make it any better...
religion is dogma, dead, unliving thoughts
the essence of life moves all things including animals and plants
man is not the arbiter of truth, simply it's discover er...
want to talk about religion, I'll be wearing your fur.
July 24, 2006 2:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
americans love to whine i guess. one soldier dies and everyone is ready to pack up and go home. a long war is about sacrifices and standing your ground which the US (and seemingly ONLY the US) is doing. the war in lebanon will make the world safer IF they put the int'l peace-keeping force there that they are promising AND IF syria and iran stop trying to turn the region into their toilet. they cant beat the US, whether it be militarily, or diplomatically (an immediate cease fire resolution was brought to the UNSC and ultimately vetoed by the US) there is no place for a group like this in the modern world. they claim to be working for the good of lebanon, but theyve dragged in innocent civilians that had nothing and wanted nothing to do with this; not to mention the fact that their best defense is launching rockets with no guidance systems into another country to kill israelis and yes, even arabs (didnt Nasrallah say that Hezbollah doesnt kill innocent people?????) these groups are such crap... anyone swayed by them is a cow that deserves to be slaughtered. let the smart ones leave, then carpet bomb the whole region... then there will be peace in the middle east
July 24, 2006 2:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
in the United States, you have a group of people that solve everything with the Military.
they are called the Military Industrial Complex, they take more than 50% of all tax dollars that come in....they make money when there is war....Halliburton has gone from $9 to $90 a share.
George H.W. Bush, used to work for Halliburton...may still work for Halliburton.
the current Executive Branch is composed of Men and Women that support the Project for a New American Century...this organization was put together for the purposes of using the Military for solving the worlds' problems....it was sseen that the Military needed to justify it's existence after the collapse of the Soviet Union...
here's their statement of principles, signed by among others Paul Wolfowitz, Dick CHENEY, Donald Rumsfeld, Scooter Libby, Jeb Bush, and about 11 others..
one of it's tenets is pre emptive action.
The interesting thing to me, as a citizen of the United States that has been alive and thinking since after WWII, is that the actions of the last 6 years have almost eradicated a good portion of the middle class. Closed most of our factories and moved them off shore. Taken all of the customer service jobs that might have been given to the out of work factory people and moved them overseas as well...effectively eliminatinating the blue collar middle class.
These same "blue collar middle class" were sold homophobia and hate as a family value in order to control the presidential elections...and make it so that true American values of Truth, Justice and Liberty for all have been all but erased....as the riech keep getting riecher.
consider this part of your education...you might notice the statement of principles was drawn up in 1997, well in advance of the WTC operation.
July 24, 2006 1:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Some the the commentary here reflects exactly why the Middle East is such a mess. Allah doesn't belong to anyone. Everything belongs to Allah. Education is not the source of primacy. Allah is. Temporal power doesn't exist. Allah's power is absolute.
I am not being facetious, sracastic of flip. I am not a muslim but have tried to understand. The West, specifically the US, specifically its administration but given the tone of the above comemnts many of its people, and, surprisingly, Israel who has coexisted in one form or another with Islam for centuries do notunderstand Islamic culture.
This has gotten to the point, where muslim ill will towards the west will be irreversible in the short term. Even if the West got its collective act together yesterday, it would take a century to clean up this mess.
July 24, 2006 1:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Get the arabs out of Europe and the USA. If they don't like people immigrating to their lands we shouldn't allow them to emigrate to ours.
July 24, 2006 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I find Bill Emmott, Ahmed Rashid, Daoud Kuttab and Mahmoud Sabit's responses very depressing. Their responses convey ideas that the world will not be safer because the issue: "Israel-Palestine" continues to be unresolved, which is correct.
But, this issue will not be resolved until countries like Iran and Syria stop funding the guerrilla and radical group's leaders. In the past, the former USSR, China and Iraq were the countries that provided the cash for radical groups of the Middle East. Now, Iran and Syria are strongly supporting radical groups like Hezbollah and others with weapons and money to spill blood in that part of the world. Their aim is simple, to become leaders of the Arab and Muslim world. In this sense, these countries are not different from those "cocaine cartels" which provide with the same resources to guerrila groups to wage war against their nataional governments. The end result is the same: "to spill innocent blood," while they benefit from their illegal trade.
So, unless these two countries are forced to stop providing weapons and financial resources to Hezbollah and other radical groups, the world will not be safe.
But, this does not mean that we have to give up. In my view, the leadrers of Iran and Syria must come to a realization that an unsafe world is not convenient for them either. For extremes never bring success. We are all together in this world. We leave in peace together or we all perish at the same time. Then, the question is how to go about?
The answer is simple if the leaders of the Arab world want to have peace. Forget about spending billions of dollars in weapons and armies. Spend your money in the best resouce that Allah has given you, e.i., the human resouces ( specially young generations). Create better educational systems, provide them with better universities and centers of scientific resarch, institue better health care systems, and above all, teach them that "Allah" belongs to everybody not only to the Muslim world. For there is no monopoly when it comes to God.
Then, who is called to bring peace to that part of the world? I dare to chanllenge the G-8 countries: Russia, United States, Germany, Japan, England, Italy, France and Canada. These countries are the only ones that can bring "new and peaceful order" to the Middle East because they are the only ones whose interests are well entrenched with one side or the other. So, in the final analysis, if we want to see peace and good governments in the Arab and Muslim world, the G-8 countries leaders must stop using Midle East leaders as paws against each other.
July 24, 2006 1:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I don't believe it makes sense for one "side" to be at war while the other keeps being attacked. Hezbolla has never given even lip service to the idea of coexisting with Israel.
Giving in to kidnappers' demands encourages more kidnappings.
I agree with writers who say the Lebaneese should be angry. They shoud be angry at Hezbolla.
July 24, 2006 1:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
all of your statements are based upon theory, not reality.
take this simple example:
I'm in grade school, it's the third grade. I get into a fight with Hyman Kaplan, and beat him up in the hallway with everyone watching. The rest of the time I am in school, Hyman and I are hyper aware of each other.............he's wondering if I'm going to do it again, I'm wondering if he's ever going to forget it or get bigger than me...blah blah blah, I'm wasting a good percentage of my time in school interacting with Hyman.
my whole grade school and possibly middle school and high school life is shadowed by how I interacted with Hyman in 3rd grade.
once I had that experience, or saw it about to unfold, I never fought in public and I never humiliated anyone....IF I HAD A GREVIANCE, I presented them with my greviance and we worked it out...with fighting an _alternative_ but I always pointed out that fighting wouldn't give a solution....
I never had to fight. Education is an essential part of solving any situation as is honesty....I haven't seen honesty as part of any middle eastern/african conflict, by either side.
Religion needs to be seperated from the action. Power, not beauty is what religion is about in this region.
July 24, 2006 1:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The question is either someone's wry tongue in cheek,or it reflects tremendous naivete.
The current Israeli situation is nothing more than a surrogate carrying out the next chapter in he ongoing saga of the ill-fated "preemptive strike" policy made famous by the neocons in the Bush administration- because the Bush administration no longer has the "political capital" to do it themselves because of fear of political backlash in November.
I will get sucked in. The appropriate question should be whether or not the World is safe from the US and Israel? What is scarier is this morning's reports about our Noble Ally Pakistan having the capability to make 40-50 nukes per year going forward.
Not much talk from the White House about this. Just because the administration feels they are an ally in the allegorical "War on Terror", does not make them any more responsible than the Axis of Evil's Iran. In fact, given their track record over the Kashmir, I would be very worried about them lobbing a missle on a rapidly growing India.
UN Sactions here anyone? Not a chance.
We don't talk to Iran or Syria. We won't talk to Hamas, Hesbollah and Al Queada. Condi must be expecting a very quiet trip to the Middle East. Only folks to talk to are the Israelis and the administration is directing the cheering section.
Where is Henry Kissinger when he is needed? Darn though. By current administration standards, he's a flaming liberal.
Is the world safer? Not a chance.
July 24, 2006 1:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
what if a religious connection between church and state were effectively severed by law....
what if people who preached violence from the mosque or temple against other religious groups or the state were arrested and imprisoned as "enemies of the state," and or not allowed to preach?
is it destabliziing to have "ministers" manipulate the peoples emotions against the government or other peoples?
what if _all_ peoples that were in Israel were subject to the same treatment regardless of what their religious beliefs were? is favoritism something that should be part of a government?
Is there favoritism in the Arab world towards Arabs? Is there favoritism to Israel from the United States? Do these things destablize the region?
Do you think the United States would take advantage of this destablization to have things work in it's favor? Has it ever done this in the past?
try being grown ups, not just angry children with opinions...treat this like a "work project," you have workers that don't get along and you need to complete the project...it can be done.
July 24, 2006 1:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Yes. Israel must and will be a safer place once this war and the crisis is over and resolved with a tangible and durable cease fire and security arrangements. And safer will be the world. This is not a war between Israel and Hezbollah. This is a crisis, if not initiated by Iran, at least now managed by Teheran. This is a war by proxy. Imagine a Canadian or Mexican militia/terrorist group abducting USA servicemen and then shelling with rockets El Paso or San Diego or Detroit and the respective and sovereign government of Canada or Mexico do nothing cliaming it is too weak to extend its power and authority over its own territory. what the USA government and people will do?
The argument that one has to appease the radicals otherwise one loses the moderates in the Arab and Muslim world is a hollow one. The more you appease the militants the weaker they percieve you and the more aggressive they become. It is clear that not only the western world support this time Israel (probably for the first time since the war of independence in 1948) but also most of Arab governments do it though not in the open with a rare exception of Saudi Arabia which bashed Hezbollah. And I believe that the majority of the Lebanese people and political parties wish to see Israel dwarfing the power of Hezbollah. why? because they realize that if Hassan Nasrallah's organization doesn't suffer a major blow to its pride, its hibris and its radical ideology, i.e creating a theocracy in Lebanon modeled on Iran's Islamic Republic the world will less safe. Today it is Israel to be on the recieving end of Iran's Shiite revolutionary expansionist dreams and tomorrow it will be the turn of Egypt, Jordan and others. The western world will be much safer and Iran weaker. This can be achieved if the war ends with Hezbollah's militia is removed from the border areas with Irael and dismantle according to UN security Council resolution 1559 and the international law.
July 24, 2006 1:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
you don't have to choose a side...you don't have to support current actions.
suppose you're a project leader and you needed to establish a stable and lasting peace, and all of the people were just like the ones that you have to work with....
but it's your project, you can hire and fire anyone that you wanted to, and use the media as your personal tool...
I could effect peace within a short time and spend several years ensuring that things moved away from religious fundamentalism by removing it....but not aggressively, by education
and seperation of church and state
think of this as an engineering project. what would _you_ do to solve it, favoring neither side
or can't you do that? If you can't then you shouldn't be here.
July 24, 2006 12:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments
We are getting to a point where Israel's interest are passing in front of the US's ones. It is clear that Hezbollah is the winner, thanks to the sick Israel policy of believing that a military solution is possible.
Not matter what atrocities have been done by the Jews over the past 50 years it has not worked, and it won't. It has created so much hate that another 9/11 is to fear.
Israel is a fake state. In can exist on in a war situation with the billions poured by the US. Peace would kill Israel.
July 24, 2006 12:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I am a little confused. Lets assume that Hezbollah was a legitimate resistance movement (They have used terrorist tactics, so they obviously are at least a little terrorist. But I am just assuming for the purpose of argument here). How would you expect them to resist? Throw bombs at military centers and attack and capture *soldiers*. The fact that they throw bombs at civilians is what makes them terrorist and illegitimate. However, Israel is radically punishing Lebanon, for what was arguably extremely combat. Capturing soldiers, so that they could use them to get back some of their own people captured by Israel. Note how they captured soldiers and not civilians. What about capturing soldiers, which is the only correct way to battle, or carry out a violent resistance is so evil? I think at the very least, Israel has used the worst possible excuse to carry out this pogrom against Lebanon, just as it was achieving some sort of democratic stability, after years of civil war.
July 24, 2006 12:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This administration seems to be on the verge of going beyond the point of no return.
1. Rushing more bombs to Israel and playing at being an honest broker presumes that the entire Arab world let alone rest of the planet are morons.
2. The present policies of this Administration specially in the ME reflect a narrowness that defies a sense of the principles that are inherent in the Constitutin of the USA.
3. The average Amrican citizen is being puzzled by the actions and comments being made about what role the US Government intends to play and its direction.
4. If the securities of the US and Israel are intertwined maybe its time TO REPLACE THE 50 STARS ON OLD GLORY WITH THE ONE STAR OF DAVID THEREBY BOTH Israel, the US and the rest of the world will be forewarned that the national emblem of both countries is the same. The NEW flag will then henceforth show the STAR OF DAVID AND THE STRIPES OF THE OLD FLAG.
5. This might in time help do away with AIPAC, giving Israel $3 to $4 billion a year in taxpayers monies and lessen the burden on the Senate and Congress of having to pass resolutions in support of Israel. Since then Israeli citizens will get the same voting rights as regular folks and the President of Israel can also be President of the US and vice versa.
6. That seems like the best solution for securing the security of Israel and the USA.
July 24, 2006 12:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
One thing that very few have commented on is the fact that the US, which has been supposedly dedicated to spreading democracy in the middle east, is sanctioning Israel's attack on a functioning democracy. Lebanon has a democratic government: granted, they have some unusual provisions in order to ensure that power does not all fall into either Christian or Muslim hands, but nonetheless they have one. It is a travesty that because Israel and the US are unable to distinguish between the organization of Hezbollah and the state of Lebanon, this state that was finally pulling itself together after the last war with Israel is now in shambles, both physically and in a sense politically, since Israel has powerfully shown that Lebanon itself can do very little to defend itself.
As far as Hezbollah is concerned, their attacks on Israel were certainly misadvised and wrong, but to portray the situation as that of Hezbollah suddenly disrupting a stable peace is unrealistic. Both Hezbollah and Israel have for years been lobbing a few missiles back and forth over the border at each others' territories - why do you think all the towns in northern Israel and Southern Lebanon have air raid sirens and bomb shelters?
Israel's current goal (which the US has supported) is the eradication of Hezbollah. However, their attacks on the civilian population of Lebanon have made that a nearly impossible goal: the more destruction they wreak on Lebanon and particularly on non-military targets (such as much of the recent construction in Beirut), the more Lebanese - Christian, Shiite, Sunni, and Druse - will detest Israel, and the more people will flock to Hezbollah's banner.
Hezbollah itself has done a tremendous job over the past few years of growing from a terrorist insurgent group to an almost mainstream political group (one that just happens to have its own military). In addition, they provide many social services in Lebanon, such as schools, hospitals, and mosques. The Washington Post published an article recently that stated that Hezbollah is either directly or indirectly responsible for the employment of 250,000 peopel in Lebanon - a significant chunk of the population. Hezbollah is a part of Lebanon now, and cannot be eradicated. With time and patience, they perhaps could have been fully integrated into mainstream society and become much less agressive and militant - particularly if Israel took the initiative and abstained from such actions as flying military aircraft over Beirut (something they did even during "peace" time). Hezbollah's actions are certainly not to be praised, but Israel's are perhaps to be condemned even further. Israel has had the opportunity to use its superior military power and purportedly superior moral ground to promote a standing-down of hostilities, but has not, and has instead chosen to respons with crushing force. Israel does not take an eye for an eye anymore: now, if they lose an eye, you can be sure the opponent will lose half their body. As long as these hawkish tendencies are at the forefront of Israeli policy, there will be no peace in the Middle East.
July 24, 2006 12:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This will make it much worse, escalating into war with Iran and Syria and going on into Spring 2007...
July 24, 2006 12:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Remember the good old days of simple retaliation? The bad guys would do something bad, the good guys would bomb the crap out of them to make them pay ten times over, and it's done.
Remember the war with Iran that didn't happen in 1979, the hundred thousand American soldiers who didn't die in that war? Hostage-taking is not a justification for a massive war. Jimmy Carter is really looking better and better these days.
The only "good" or just war is defensive; it involves the minimum use of force necessary to force the aggressor to halt and roll back their aggression. The Israeli assault on Lebanon, while perhaps marginally justified, is surely grossly indiscriminate and disproportionate. Every civilian casualty's younger brother or cousin is a future terrorist.
An enemy like Hezbollah can't be destroyed. They can be defeated militarily, for a while. They can be ethnically cleansed and forced to move back. The appropriate response to their attacks is, first, defeat them militarily, second, contain them, and third, negotiate with them to allow them normal commerce with their neighbors, so that they have a stake in peace and propserity.
Remember that Hezbollah is not acting without provocation. They are supporting Hamas, and Hamas is engaged in a defensive resistance against Israeli occupation. The issue here is prisoners. In a war, prisoners get taken and exchanged. Israel could allow a simple exchange of a small number of low-value Palestinian prisoners for its soldiers, and people could go back to their families. Israel holds thousands of prisoners, it can spare a few. Instead, Israel is using a small incident as a pretext for a massive conflict. People are starting to use words like "World War III" because it is so similar to the lead-up to World War I.
Hezbollah wants to overextend Israel's army into a vast occupation of hostile territory, putting Israeli soldiers in harm's way just as Americans are in Iraq. Professional soldiers away from home require expensive supply lines, while young men who go to work most weekdays and who eat dinner at their parent's table are much cheaper to maintain. That's how Hezbollah won the last time, and how they expect to win again. If Hezbollah can draw Syria, Iran, Jordan, or other countries into the conflict against Israel, so much the better from their perspective. They pay a very high cost in blood, but as long as injustice and aggression continues, they are not lacking in young new martyrs. People fight wars because they have little to lose and few options; given the choice between dying lying down and dying standing up, many people will choose to die standing up for what they believe in. We need to be offering better alternatives.
They say Israel is America's strongest ally in the region. That's true, in exactly the same way that Austria-Hungary was Kaiser Wilhelm's strongest ally.
July 24, 2006 11:52 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I still don't quite understand the reasoning behind Israel's argument that it is actually helping the Lebanese government in eliminating Hezbollah. Israel seems to be eliminating hope for peace in Lebanon and in the region. How are you going to help a government by destroying it's 20-year rebuilding efforts? How are you going to end Syrian influence by creating a situation where hundreds of thousands of refugees head to Damascus, with the Syrians being the only country in the world actually doing something to help them?
It is a flawed argument to say that you are blowing up a country: its road's, bridges, lighthouses, cell phone towers, airports, hospitals, residential areas, power stations, shipyards, landmarks etc... in order to help it. Shame on Israel, shame on a comlicit United States, shame on an international community that stands by and watches the slaughter.
July 24, 2006 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Safer? NO. What will make us safer from the middle east? Justice for the Palestinians today: Establish all of Gaza & the West Bank (includes E. Jerusalem) as an independent state; and compensation for the lands handed out in 1948 (neither the West nor the UN had the right to give it away). Return lands conquered by war to the original inhabitants (that includes the Golan Heights - that's where the Israeli slodiers were abducted from by Hizballah - occupied land). If Israel believes a security wall is needed, it should build it on Israeli land.
For the rest: The one doing the shooting is responsible for the deaths. Mass punishment has always been ineffective, except when the result is extermination.
July 24, 2006 11:01 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I have to believe I'm not alone in thinking only St. Jude (the patron saint of lost causes) would have any luck with the Mid-East. The Conservative view seems to be support Israel no matter what. That hasn't worked very well. The Liberal view is to bring peace to the Middle East however it can be accomplished. That hasn't worked very well either.
Hmmmmm, color me silly but the height of folly is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We have to come to the realization we can not stop this conflict. We can only prolong it by intervening and/or supporting one side over the other. Let the conflict take its natural course. I don't know who will win and frankly I don't care. Spending our lives and money on this area of the world will be a never ending cycle if we allow it.
As far as our safety goes pulling American Troops out of the Mid-East and refusing to give or sell arms and/or munitions to any country in the Mid-East would go a long way in making me feel safer.
July 24, 2006 10:46 AM | Report Offensive Comments
A shift has occurred with this war that does not bode well for Israel: The loss of their status as the good guys.
July 24, 2006 10:38 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The future is open, and the answer is thus one which cannot be given definitely. I speak from Israel and I will confine my remarks to what I understand to be the situation of Israel.
Israel is the only country in the world whose existence is not only threatened but actively challenged by the hostile actions of its neighbors. When Israel withdrew to its international border from Lebanon in 2000 it had international guarantees that Hizbollah would be disarmed, and the border be quiet. Those guarantees were not honored. Hizbollah has built with the aid of Iran a military structure in Lebanon including a network of thousands of missiles for the sole purpose of attacking Israel. Israel ignored this build- up until the latest provocation. The Hizbollah leader Nasrallah misinterpreted this as a sign of Israel's weakness. For him Israel is a 'spider web' that upon being touched would fall apart. This time however his touching let to a reaction which will without question considerably reduce the military capacity of Hizbollah. Whether or not it will bring quiet to Lebanon is another question.
Again behind Lebanon is the leading terror - state in the world Iran and its ally Syria. Iran's President has frequently declared that his aim is to destroy Israel.
The present hostilities in my opinion are important for Israel in preventing attacks upon its citizens by Hizbollah. But even more important, again in my opinion, is the threat presented by Iran.
So as I see it what is happening now is preliminary to the real confrontation to come.
I said I would speak about Israel, but I will add one more word about the U.S. interest, as I see it. It is not only the security and survival of Israel which is threatened by the coming into being of a nuclear Iran, not only even the US friendly regimes in the Middle East, but the oil supply and security of the world as a whole. A nuclear Iran threatening and dominating its neighbor, spreading its terror everywhere is a threat to the world as a whole.
It must be stopped. How and by whom are I believe the questions Prime Minister Olmert and President Bush should be asking their advisors, and each other at this very moment.
July 24, 2006 10:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The 3 wars started recently by Americans, may be reasonable in purpose but are a disaster because of the tactics. They have provided a potent resource for the fundamentalists on both sides to promote their provincial but otherwise impotent agenda.The innocent and silent majority as well as the civilization are at risk.
July 24, 2006 10:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The World is the same Except the The Arabs have money to burn.
This is the start of WW3 —The Hesballahs of the World are bent on killing or converting all non-believers and are well funded. They have brainwashed thier children and are inflicting them on us.
The Jews are doomed__ there are about 17 million of them and the World is fixated on them? Billions of people 17 million Jews.
The World is just plain stupid.
In a way, Bush is right, but he has no answers. Niether do I.
July 24, 2006 10:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This war will be like all the other wars fought by Israel. It will cause more refugees, deprive the arab populations of whatever hope they had, swell the ranks of the radicalized, and most importantly, lay the groundwork for Israels next war.
It has been said a thousand times and mostly ignored. A long term solution which recognizes Palestine's right to exist and gives hope and investment to its people is the only route to peace. Israel must take charge because it is the only actor with sufficient power to do so. Instead it cedes leadership to the radicals.
Allowing men of war instead of mean of peace to lead leads us on a predictable path.
July 24, 2006 9:34 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Reading a prior comment about Vietnam being like World War II. It took the mindset that one country, North Vietnam, attacked another country, South Vietnam. Vietnam was one single country, a fact that many just fail to see. After the defeat of the French, the country was divided into the non-religious north and the Catholic south. Vietnam was a religious war. We began the defense of the southern part of Vietnam, in fact created that state so that it could be a Christian nation as opposed to the "godless North".
Unfortunely for us, for the majority of the Vietname people the desire to have their country "whole" was more important to them than holding to the religion of their former masters, the French.
I find it amazing that so many people never admited Vietnam was one country divided by John Foster Dulles rather than two seperate countries. President Lincoln is praised for our nation not dividing. Ho Chi Minh is cursed for fighting to keep his country together.
July 24, 2006 9:03 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Safer? Are you kidding? Tell you what, how about I come over to your house and punch you in the nose. Do you suppose I have made an enemy or a friend?
Want a definition of WMDs? Take a look at Lebanon today. Here is the result of implementing theatre level WMDs. Just look at the destruction we have caused by providing Isreal with WMDs. Talk about hypocrits!!!
July 24, 2006 8:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The existence of Israel has always been precarious. The middle east is the definition of an unsafe region, so the question regarding relative safety of America's allies in the region is a little naive. America's safety? As rich and powerful as we are, considering how controlled our living environment is, some uncertainty about our safety is just a bit of natural balance asserting itself.
July 24, 2006 5:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Reading the report in today's Washington Post on the mounting toll of civilians killed and wounded in Lebanon, including men, women and children fleeing as instructed by Israel, I am appalled at the cruelty of the Israelis. Yes, I know Hisbollah attacks and kills civilians but they are supposed to be terrorists whereas the Israelis are supposed to be the legitimate forces of a democratic state. But honestly if you arrived from Mars and knew nothing of either side could you tell the difference? The words terrorism and war crimes come to my mind.
Furthermore, I cannot understand why the US supports Israel so unequivocally in all of this. It seems to me that this support is seriously damaging to US interests and is a main source of the hatred towards the US in the Islamic world. It is clear to anyone, who is not aligned with either side, that the US is not just a concerned observor of the Arab/Israeli conflict, but has now decided to actively participate on the side of it's ally, Israel to the detriment of the Palestinians and Arabs generally. I believe that this one-sidedness will perpetuate the confict by enabling Israel to act with impunity in the certain knowledge that the US will ultimately defend it.
July 24, 2006 3:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments
There will be no peace in the Middle East until either Israel or the enemies of Israel have no ability to wage war. If Israel falls then the enemies of Israel will focus on the ìGreat Satinî of the world and work to destroy the U.S. Radical Islam does not wish peace but dominance.
For those who speak so fondly of peace in the Middle East and seek Israel to capitulate, let them consider when nuclear missiles from Iran one day may rain down on New York. Will we then talk of peace and understanding? Tyrants love those who seek peace, they make the best victims. The U.S. needs to consider more radical options and how to neutralise Syria and Iran. A million dead in the Middle East is better than a million dead in the U.S. Think what Iran will do in twenty years.
July 24, 2006 3:10 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Every Action has an equal and opposite reaction. childres start their lesson of wisdom from this simple theory.
so if any body believes that by creating an atmosphere of fear and show of power he can live safer then he is living in a land of fantasy.
if by power somebody can control the human beings then the romans, genghis khans, mughals hitlors and masulani should be still ruling this world.
even a person of average intelligencia will answer the question is that by the action being performed by Israel and openly supported by US and Britain will not make them safer for long time . their own strategy appears to be a shock treatment and then talk to opponents when they are softer and make an agreement on their own terms.
only the future will tell us if this strategy will be successful
July 24, 2006 1:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
So far the US government is worried much more about Jews in Israel than American people anywhere else. Supporting all those chauvinistic Jewish criminals, "our" government makes us all look like real idiots all over the world. Eventually, the Jews will be the big losers and nothing & nobody is going to change it. The irony is the American taxpayers are still paying for that billions of dollars "thanks to" the Jewish lobby in the US and our corrupted / opportunistic politicians. Do not you think it is about time to change all that crap?
July 24, 2006 1:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
you will not find a consensus of American people backing the current administration....you will find a group of rich people trying to hide their schemes in glorious words like patriotism, gawd, and for the nation....
if you look closer you will find fat pigs who do not treat their own citizens any better than a farmer treats his chickens that he is raising to eat...
it is a class that is leading the United States not a government, the agencies serve a caste, not a United States citizenship....and that caste is in collusion with other internationals...that similarly use their citizens for their personal needs...
July 24, 2006 12:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
cleaning house in the United States you need to make it stick a little better than it ever has before.
I think you need to arrest some Executive Branch people for treason. It is not alright to use the United States Military Branch of the government for personal profit....I think we need to make example of a few people in a rather strong way. What is the penalty for treason? I would also like to take away their profits and the ability to sway future governments by eliminating their ability to manipulate the government or people with their wealth....I would like to strip them of their wealth and give it back to the General Fund.........as a legal method and set a precedence as to how these treasonous actions are treated....
I would also like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Negroponte, Rove, and Bushes one and two to go before the Hague on war crimes charges....occuping countries to corner the oil market....world class crimes...
world class crimes....
as to why they are backing the Israelis', it's very popular for criminals to make agreements with other criminals...."If you have my back, I have yours..." "we agree to present a united front of being the good guys," "we give each other alibis,"
right, sure you do...
July 23, 2006 11:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I truly believe there is dishonesty on both sides. And the Muslims do seem to have a tenet that says war is an acceptable alternative to peace. But we have a Christian administration (at least they are Sunday - go to meetin' guys) that invaded a foreign country on false pretenses. They also think that God is on their side and evidently that war is an acceptable alternative to pease. Why, it becomes as clear as the nose on the end of my face!!! There will be war and it will be sanctioned by the Americans.
It is also quite clear that we are not making friends in the middle East and we are certainly not safer!!
Someone wanted a suggestion to solve this problem. First dump the chumps in Washington. We've had enough of the warring Republicans and the spineless Democrats. Clean house. Find candidates that are willing to work for peace and not engage in war profiteering.
It will go a long way towards resolving the tensions in the Middle East.
July 23, 2006 11:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
that the bigger people that terrorize other people are labeled the good guys and whoever there is less of or who has a smaller armament are labeled
that's convenient for some that would hide their acts of agression or oil stealing by using words like
the only terrorists that are currently working to attack the United States citizens are the government agencies that cloak their operatives in the guise of enemy agents as they manipulate the citizens of the United States to give away their rights in the name of patriotism, which is actually moving the United States more into fascism and rule by oligarchy....
Israel is by definition, parinoid and sociopathic....their religion preaches the idea that they _are_ seperate and by definition others are unclean........
how do you deal with people like that? you tell them that they are crazy and deluded for starts.
gawd doesn't take sides, smaller energy theives might...but that is another topic...
there is no gawd of the jews that asks them to be seperate and have funny behaviours.
July 23, 2006 11:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
can get what it wants,
a world where their view is the correct one.
They, the Israeli and Arabic peoples are both primitives behaving as such....there is no "good side," the side of "truth."
The muslim belief in fatwahs and jihads, _by_definition_ means that you can not trust arabic people of muslim belief...
You can talk of the Israelis all you want to, but when you _insist_ on ignoring the fact that a tenet of the muslim belief is the premise that they may wage war as a "holy," thing, then whoever is interpreting the effect of war as holy is either a sociopath, or insane....
The other thing is that Israel as a nation is sick in it's belief or ethnic heritage that it is chosen above all others by gawd...and that it must be persecuted for whatever reason....
Perhaps I'm not phrasing things as succintly as I might, however
these two wrongs will not make a right, unless each is repaired as a part of the process....
beirut is simply the spawning ground for evil as things currently stand, without the two sides sicknesses being addressed.
July 23, 2006 10:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
that it's either pro arab, or pro israel.
Why is no one simply assessing the situation as it exists, from an empirical viewpoint? What is going on?
Is there dishonesty on both sides?
July 23, 2006 10:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
the same as the truth.
most participants in this discussion, favor one side over the other or one way of behaving.
neither side offers resolution, as resolution is not an event it is a _situation_ that persists.
resolution insists upon both sides being correct in their assessment and find ing a resolution that is effective in it's effect...
not a rhetorical solution to a theory.
as an engineer, you would have to compare it to feedback analysis and stable signal strength and duration as a desired outcome...no morality implied but in balancing loads...
you can't balance loads, by ignoring one.
July 23, 2006 9:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
OK. Let's see if I have this right. Israel is attacked by a gang of terrorist thugs that are also a political party and UN-declared terrorist organization; within and supported by the nation of Lebanon. These thugs cross the border and take Israeli soldiers hostage, and murder a few more along the way. Hezbollah - who's declared policy is the destruction of Israel (and, also by the way, "defeat of the USA") - and who the WORLD agrees was supposed to be disarmed two years ago ... is somehow now judged as "acting in self defense" by launching close to a thousand rockets at civilian targets. And Israel is supposed to do what? Petition the Security Council to "take action" against Hezbollah? Or perhaps just give in to the terrorists. Hezbollah needs to be eradicated from the earth; or at least weakended into non-relevancy; and Lebanon - if it wants to be a peaceful propserous nation - needs to no longer support terrorists within its borders. Thank God for Israel, for rationale Arab nations that are staying on the sidelines hoping Israel gets the job done right, and for the United States for supplying Israel with the high tech weapons it needs to defeat the terrorists with minimum civilian casualties. The world will never be at peace until we stop negotiating with terrorists - and just "take 'em out" instead.
July 23, 2006 9:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
that the ineffectiveness of both sides points to a mutual ignorance...
July 23, 2006 9:27 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If, if ,if, "if Israel achieves the objectives of destroying most of Hezbollah's capacity (and organizational ability) to terrorize Israeli cities with rocket attacks." Could be written by some ambassador of Israel. It sounds so convincing, yes, Hezbollahs rockets are bad. BUT it started with two abducted soldiers. Then came Israels bombs, then, as a reaction, came the rain of rockets, right? Wasnt Hezbollah insofar perfectly right? Arent these rockets rockets of self-defense? Israels acts like "the king can do no wrong" and if it wouldnt be so terrible, everybody can watch the effect of Israels bombs in TV, worldwide, it would be ridiculous. Israel can destroys a country, surprise, surprise, and gets nothing out of it. "Organizational ability" is invisible, wow, Israel can claim a secret victory, a small one, does it matter? What has it lost? What have the U.S. lost in Iraq? The massacres on the streets of Bagdad are terrible, but if Saddam would be still in power... Serious question: what would you prefer if you were an avarage Iraqi in Iraq?
July 23, 2006 9:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In the absence of American sternly worded rebuke to Israel over the
use of American provided warplanes to repeatedly attack civilians and
innocents there is the silence of approval. Such silence speaks very
loudly of American pro Israeli policy and this renders any American
diplomatic effort suspect in the Middle East. The Americans have not
been careful to either stay out,away or above the show of deeply held
favortism or overt support of Israel for the last 5 years. Evidently
the endorsement of the misguided and poorly defined Bush War on
Terror has earned Israel a position of immunity within the Bush WH
to do as it pleases. Which it surely has been doing in Gaza,in the
West Bank and in Jerusalem. With this incursion into Lebanon the
Israelis have brought intense suffering and death to civilian and
non-hostile populations on what concept of validity? The American
contrived and ill-defined War on Terror? Perhaps then it is time to
declare a global War on Militarism of which both the USA and Israel
are the prime advocates in the Middle East. On a global basis there
is much evidence of sorely needed economic,social and political
resources being diverted into militarism,war industrialism and of
an ever expansive and increasingly expensive global offensive and
defensive weapons commerce. The distortion that this concerted and
highly powered effort brings to all areas of the world where social
programs geared towards health care,education,social development and
infrastructure buildup are underfunded or unfunded is profound. So
let the American President who has displayed little human concern
or compassion during these last few days over the plight of Lebanon
declare a War on Global Militarism. At any level of discussion or
implementation it would be no less worthy than the under-defined and
odd premise of the Global War of Terror. As for American diplomatic
credibility of peacebroker in the Middle East that clearly has become
nonsense. As for continued Israeli subset matters of Palestinian
subjugation,illegal land grabs and ongoing unilateral conditions
creation it has taken place without moral or ethical foundation.
The demographics of the Middle East are not supportive of current
or historical Israeli attempts to preserve a Jewish State premised
on theocracy,exclusion and the cultural sidelining of Arab peoples
and religions. Violence and imposed hardship will not validate any
Israeli effort to not address such matters. The future must bring
levels of realism to Israeli domestic and regional aspirations and
politics that though painful must take place as Israel cannot bomb,
imprison or wall itself out of this increasingly unsustainable stand.
July 23, 2006 8:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The war will make the world a safer place, if Israel achieves the objectives of destroying most of Hezbollah's capacity (and organizational ability) to terrorize Israeli cities with rocket attacks. If the war focuses the Arab nations - and the UN - to demand Iran and Syria stop supporting Hezbollah's terrorism - Isreal and the west will be safer. An unconditional cease fire before Isreal has completed the job (which would appease only the terrorists and short sighted hippie-ites of the west) would just provide Hezbollah and it's fanatical supporters the opportunity to parade "victory" through the streets. The genie's out of the bottle. The terrorists must (and can) be defeated; and if Syria falls in line and Iran stops funding the terrorists, they'll go back to being the goat-herders they used to be ... Without external funding and support, Hezbollah and Hamas would become marginalized and defeated. While Lebanese civilian casualties are regrettable, the Lebanese tolerated terrorists in their nation - and are not "innocent bystanders" - a lesson they will hopefully learn for the future.
July 23, 2006 8:20 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I'm reminded of a poem I read in grade school and I'm afriad I don't remember who wrote it: "Some say the world will end by fire, some say by ice..." The tag line is that either will suffice.
Israel has the right to defend itself from its enemies, Hizbollah has the right to defend itself from its enemies. One of Israel's enemies is Hizbollah. One of Hizbollah's enemies is Israel.
Oh, that didn't help anything, did it? Go figure!
Could it be that NEITHER side is right and BOTH are wrong?
I'd say that given our current administration's success in Iraq and winning the hearts and minds of the Arab world, the only clear conclusion is that we will still be fighting in Iraq and Israel and Hizbollah will still be enemies in a couple of years. Perhaps the next US, Israeli and Hizbollah leaders will be a little more wise or a little more competent that the current bunch.
Or maybe not.
By the way, does anyone know what the birth rate among Israelis is? How about the birthrate among Palestinians and other Arabs?
July 23, 2006 8:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The war does not make it more dangerous for US citizens who remain in the US ( most of us ), but it makes it potentially more dangerous for Americans who travel overseas. The Israelis are so strongly disliked, even before the war, it probably does not affect their safety one way or the other. Politically, if the situation in Lebanon gets bad enough, it can make the US public tire even more of Iraq, emboldening US Congress to cut funds and essentially effect the removal of US forces from the ground in Iraq. That, of course, would mean better safety for US forces who are sitting ducks on traffic patrol in Iraq. So it really depends on who as it pertains to safety.
US businessmen and tourists are the vulnerable ones here, unfortunately.
July 23, 2006 7:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This act of the United States government: "taking the leash off of Israel" and letting the "mad dog" loose on Lebanon is wrong, shameful and regrettable. This war Israel has chosen to engage in, under the excuse of a few hostage soldiers, will lead to significant ill will from all sane countries in the world against both Israel and their "masters and creators", the U.S.A. Until the United States government admits their mistake of 1948 and arranges to extract Israel from the mideast, we can expect no sincere cooperation or respect from any Arab states.
Arab states will do whatever necessary to destroy Israel, including developing long term alliances with China and Russia; and also developing nuclear capability to offset the only other nuclear nation in the area, Israel. This war is making the World a much more dangerous place.
July 23, 2006 7:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Until Israel leaves the West Bank entirely and allows the Palestinians (and their descendants) to return to the homes from which they were driven in 1948, there will be no peace in Israel. Israel refuses to do this because it wants a Jewish state and cannot risk a non-Jewish majority. If it really is necessary to have a nation in which only Jews have full civil and political rights, perhaps the U.S. government should buy up a part of the United States and just give it to them. I think we would all come out ahead in the long run.
July 23, 2006 6:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I applauded Israel's victory in the 1967 6-Day War. However, instead of making peace, it chose a 40-year military occupation, which by is brutal and intolerable. This led to perennial war for "perennial peace". In 1956, when President Eisenhower ordered the invaders (England, France and Israel) of Egypt to stop and get out, America became the most respected nation in the world by Arabs and non-Arabs. Now both Israel and America are despised by most nations on earth.
Americans should understand that the interests of America ARE SEPARATE from those of Israel, and from those of any other nation. The present administration is acting as if the US is the second state of Israel. America has paid dearly for this "Dangerous Liaison", and it is time for Mr. Bush to change course. This may be good for Israel too.
The destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure, the indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians by Israel's WMD, and the incompetence and insensitivity of the Bush administartion have brought worldwide indignation and condemnation. America and Israel are considered the bullies of the world. As an American I am appalled by the dismal standing of my country among the world's nations.
Mr. Bush should make an effort to read the recent articles of Mr. David Ignatius in the Washington Post and heed his advice . It would be good for him and America.
July 23, 2006 5:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The only way to make the world safer is to restore the state of Palestine and disarm the u.s. and great britain.
July 23, 2006 5:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If anyone expects the Muslim World to embrace the State of Israel they should run out and buy a history book. The Israelis understand this is a religous war, as do the Arabs. It seems the US Administrations and State Department haven't got this message yet. We expect peace in the Mid-East and think everyone will learn to play nice with each other. How many times does this fallacy have to smack the United States in the face before we get it?
It would have been far cheaper in terms of lives and money to let the United States and Britian buy the State of Idaho and relocate Israel then leave it in the middle of the Arab World. (No offense to anyone in Idaho, I'm just trying to make a point) As long as Israel sits on Arab land and either side has a breath left in their bodies we will always have a conflict raging.
Time to try something new because the same old rhetoric isn't working.
July 23, 2006 4:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The Israelis should read Plato. Hezbollah is an idea. The people within it are but shadows on the wall. Israel will not eliminate Hezbollah with force. They are creating hundreds of thousands of new recruits. The fundamental problem in not Hezbollah, but the Israeli's occupation of Palastinians lands from their 1967 pre-emptive war. Bush's and Congress's total support of the Israeli destruction of Lebanon will make Americans hated by all Arabs and put our lives in danger. Followering the Israeli logic of making Lebanon collectively pay for the deeds of Hezbollah, the USA should have bomb Egypt and Saudia Arabia for the actions of the 9/11 hijackers. Yes, we Americans will pay dearly for the actions of Israel and Bush simplist policy. The payment will be in American lives inaddition to the billions of dollars we give to the regilious state of Israel. When is the ACLU going to file a lawsuit to prevent taxpayers dollars supporting a specific religion?
July 23, 2006 4:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
What is about the Hizbullah and Why is Israel so wanting to destroy it no matter how devastating the Israel's military actions could bring to the Lebanon country and the life of the people?
We heard Bush say the terrorist group (also a political party) is a proxy militia of Iran and Syria, meaning it represents the interest of the two countries and probably not that of its own constituency and neglecting it's playing the role of govment in providing education and social welfare with the Iranian aid. The telling part got neglected as usual.
I can't stop thinking that Israel now may be acting as US proxy force in Lebanon. Afterall, the US didn't step into WW-II for a soldier being abducted by the Germans and 2 by the Japanese.
Last Friday, there was an interesting article on the op-ed page of the Daily Star talking about the possibility of Tehran emerging as the ultimate regional winner. What caught my eye is when it mentioned "...Israel, Turkey and Iran are the great powers of the Middle East today. Not one of them is Arab" and "As political heavyweights Egypt and Syria did little to prevent Israeli jets from pounding Lebanon".
So, here comes THE OTHER SIDE of the story—"Iranian officials have often hinted that they might use Shiite allies and proxy militias in Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan to hit back should the West target them. That is what is prompting some analysts to speculate that Israel's actions in Lebanon are nothing less than the systematic dismantling of the Islamic Republic's retaliation option. With Israel hitting Hizbullah's military re-supply network, even as dozens of rockets from what must be a limited stock rain down on Israel, the Shiite militia will have trouble coming out in support of Iran at a later date, especially if Israel has been successful in "degrading" it in the meantime."
As to how the future will come out—it looks grim for the side of the US-Israel alliance.
July 23, 2006 3:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I blame the current situation in the Middle East today on Bush's diversion off US assets from the War on Terror to his War on the Axis of Evil, and his illegal, unconstitutional, invasion of Iraq. When North Korea and Iran saw what W did to Iraq, they both went into full defensive mobilization. However by not being super powers they used their own tried and trued weapens of biased mass incitement to both prevent American regime change and to inflict as much punishment on the US and it's regional allies as possible.
Israel's retaliation on the territory and assets held by Hamas and Hezbollah is a direct response to the kidnaping of Israeli soldier's from THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Hezbollah and Hamas have brought this upon themselves. These are clear act's of aggression and war by two terrorist organizations openly declared to Israel's destruction. But why now? Beacuse North Korea was getting too much attention and Iran knew that European antisemitism was better then a nuclear bomb on Tel Aviv.
In 1948 Paslestine, a geographic region not a state, was devided by the UN into two states, one for Palestinian Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. Using the " Big Lie " theory of their defeated ally, Nazi Germany, the "United Arab Republics" after failing to defeat the Palestian Jew's and destroy their state which they named Israel, gave part of Arab Palestine to Jordan and part to Egypt. All Arab Palestinian's who left the area or had lands or property lost to the new borders of Jewish Palestine, Jordan, and Egypt were to remain in displaced person's camps to propagate a myth that Palestine was stolen from the Arabs by Israel, Jewish Palestine. In Arab maps published before 1967 the only territory shown as Palestine, was Jewish Palestine, Israel. After June 1967 that changed. But the basic construct remained the same. A comprehensive propaganda instrument to foster and channel domestic unrest, the "Arab Street", and to mobilize international actions to ultimately eliminate the Jewish Palestinian State. This Great Lie remains alive and as vital to the Arabs today as it did 60 years ago. That's why refugee camps still exist, and no viable Palestinian Arab state has been allowed to develope since 1948.
Today, a none Arab state, Iran is playing the Palestinian card to once again generate the Palestinian smoke screen to defend itself from a possible US led regime change.
Both North Korea and Iran are totalitarian dictatorships, one ideological and one theocratical, neither care anything about human life nor western morality. North Korea has orphanages where children are systematically starved to death. A Danish cartoonist insult's Allah and every Dane is marked for death. Innocent civilians are randomely killed and the world is silent.
To spite Bush and his threats, N Korean in recent weeks launched a series of rocket's and unsealed it's unranium enrichment reactors. They have countered Bush's threat's by putting their cards on the table and have scared the South Koreans and Japanese into demanding a political agreement negotiated by China.
Iran on the other hand only had it's nuclear program and was fighting to prevent sanctions. After seeing what the North Koreans had gotten away with and with the mildly negative critcism of Iran's President's purely anti-semitic remarks, Iran apparently decided to put their real cards on the table.
How can anyone believe that both Hamas and then Hezbollah used the exact same methods to kidnap Israeli's coincedental??? First Iran used Hamas, but Hamas was the same old same old and the western press and Arab street were only being primed for the real story. It was then that Hezbollah attacked Israel. Iran knew that within hours Hezbollah's aggression against Israel would be forgotten and as clearly demonstrated by many news reports and comments, Israel attacked Lebanon.
Israel's attacks are disproportinate? What is a proportionate response? It's quite clear that Israel is only killing innocent civillian's, even though those innocent civillians are show as potential martyr's. The womens march of martyrs wearing suicide belt's. With " evil", " bloodthirsty ", Israel is " aggressively " aquiring "new " Arab Land, how can the US use this as a pretext to invade or attack, Iran???
It is time for negotiations. Both Hezbollah and Hamas must be disarmed. Lebenon should be totally free of Syrian troops,and extend it's armed forces to control it's border with Israel. Iran and Syria must remounce terrorismand quit arming and disarm terrorist organizations within their territories. Iran should be granted special trade and future alternative energy source incentives to dismantal it's nuclear program. The US should sign a non agression pact with Iran as part of a coprehessive Middle East Peace treaty including verifiable non agression packs between Israel and all it's Arab neighbors including the Palestinian Arab's State.
The United States should sign a peace treaty with North Korea in conjuction with South Korea, Japan and China. In addition North Korea should be given aid to help it generate Green Energy resouces to feed it's people and develope a viable 21's century army. In the meantime it should be greated economic and humanitarian aid. It must eliminate both it's nuclear and sggressive missle program. Bush must abandon his policy of preemtive government change.
July 23, 2006 3:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
A fundamental injustice was done to the American Indians by the mass European immigration. That injustice prevailed and endured because of the overwhelming numbers. But a Jewish Israel has about as much chance in the long run as a white South Africa or a Druidic Britain. It might be 50 years or with enough might and state terror 500 years but ultimately it is doomed. A truly democratic Israel in which Jews were one plurality that allied itself with with other groups in the Middle East might have a chance. Yet the vision of a Eretz Yisrael has never failed to lead the Israelis into alienating a potential ally, from ant-Turk Palestinians sixty years ago to Lebanese Christians, and then Lebanese Shiites in more recent times. Were the Israelis capable of conceptualizing offering true one-nation democratic brotherhood to the Palestinian Muslims, Christians, Druse, Bahai, etc. the world would be amazed at how rapidly the mass of Palestinians would ally themselves with their fellow "Jewish" Palestinans against monarchic Jordan and Saudi Arabia and the age old threat of numerically overwhelming Egypt. Unless, of course, the nut cases are right and judgement day comes in the next 50 years.
July 23, 2006 3:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Where are the thinkers? I miss the thoughtful few who opt to discuss, consider,and ponder the difficult questions. Violence is such an easy solution,particularly when applied long distance.
Our leaders are not intellegent enough to find the answers. They function with arrogance and ignorance while the innocent die and the world loses hope.
I am optimistic the good people will rise above the noise and install knowledgeable,intelligebt leadership. I am sad that this will take time and so many will die.
I have served in war and have learned that it never solves anything and only illustrates each and every time the frailty of the human condition.
July 23, 2006 3:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Land grab? What news reports are you watching? No one seriously believes Israel is there to stay.
As for presenting the Arab view as "plain common sense" reveals a one-sided understanding of the issue. First a panel is for the purpose of educating, if all you do is present one side, than you're not educating, you're indoctrinating. Second, whatever Arab complaints, legitimate though some may be, the present action was in response to Arab violence, that continues unabated. Israel presented no threat to Hezbollah, and indeed withdrew from Lebanon, after failing to install a friendly government there.
It seems fairly plain that there are bad faith actors that would try to portray Israel as the villain, while burying their heads in the sand with regard to Arab villainy.
Again if the Arab wants peace than the onus is on the Arab moderate to rein in muslim extremism. Failure to confront that extremism is a tacit and implicit approval of that extremism, its methods as well as its ideology...namely the destruction of Israel. Once you arrive at that conclusion, you also arrive at the inevitability of facing down that ideology or backing down from it.
Blaming Israel is a complete failure to connect the dots that muslim extremism is not only killing Americans and jews, but also anyone who disagrees with their dark ideology. Failure to confront it, invites only more violence.
July 23, 2006 2:55 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The first two Israeli invasions of Leb ended in a draw (with respect to making the US / Israel safer) - it is likely that the third invasion (despite all the sound and fury) will be a draw in this regard as well.
The latest Israeli tactics (as well as recent Palistinian Arab "Peace talks") obscure the pressing need for a strategic approach to stability in the ME: anything from creating a non-nationalistic Arab league to establishing free trade for all countries in the region to policies to eliminate the "instability payoff" (oil price rise that results from ME instability).
As long as bombs in the ME make oil producers (including Russia) rich, there will be bombs in the ME: and the Israeli action in Leb does nothing to address this issue.
July 23, 2006 2:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
above made an astonishing remark: the US kicked Syria out, call it "Cedar Revolution", but better dont believe in your own propaganda, just to be able to attack it better, with Hezbollah as excuse. Isnt this the exact pattern of Sabra and Chatilla? Arien Sharon kicked the PLO out, made a circle around the Palestinensian camps with his troops, this is more than an ommission, and the massacre could begin.
Ariel Sharon is dying, peace to his soul.
July 23, 2006 2:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Definitely not! The West? US is left alone. Britain is opposing to the war of Israel with the full support of USA against the Lebanese. Look at the disaster left behind the US and Israeli killings.
How can anybody expect a positive result after murdering innocent children, women and men by the thousands.
US has to step aside and ask Canadian and European (NATO) allies to take over in Middle East. Not to restart the killing, but to start talking like reasonable and civilized people normally do. If you are looking for peace, you talk to your enemies.
July 23, 2006 2:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
North Vietnam was seeking the destruction of the South Vietnamese state, not its people. Hamas/Hezbollah, and indeed the vast majority of the Arab/Muslim world have overtly stated that they want to "push the jew into the sea." The analogy to Vietnam remains flawed. We went into Vietnam for the same reasons we entered WWII, the reasons weren't flawed, the execution was. Moreover it can be argued that Vietnam, while a tactical failure on the part of the US, was ultimately a strategic victory as it checked Communism's spread in the region. Again in all of these cases, you were dealing with an enemy who was fundamentally logical and able of negotiating in good faith. Muslim extremists are neither.
Muslim extremism seeks the destruction of the US as well as Israel. Failure to understand how that makes us allies is dangerously short-sighted.
Claims of American imperialism are overheated rhetoric, and if one is morally ambiguous about what entails a "terrorist" then of course one would naively believe that the label should "never" apply..."no matter what"
July 23, 2006 2:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The reason why all three of the panelists are presenting an identical point of view is bcs the view is just common sense.
It is easy to portrait the other side evil and feel good about ourselves. That ain't going to get anything solved.
Plus, if the war Israel is conducting against Lebanon proved to be successful then what's going to explain the resentment about the US troops in Iraq? Ain't the innocent civilian victims one of the biggest and lasting problems? (Israel claims it avoids killing the civilians, yet the reports from BBC say otherwise.) The 1982 invasion upon Lebanon led by Sharon created the Hizbullah. Now, they are talking about another invasion to get rid of the Hizbollah. And if they can't get it done, it's bcs they haven't done it rough enough?!
Suicidal bombings are cruel and killing a score of people and making a million homeless are leneint in comparison.
Some people's logic stuns me.
When we consider the both sides of the issue, are we talking about watching Al Jareeza or reading the Lebanon Daily Star (which is said to be pro-west) besides getting info conveying Israel's claims from FOX or CNN? The other day Al Jareeza repoted "Israel continues killing in Gaza and Lebanon", bias or not, this is how most of the people in the ME see it.
And let's get another thing straight. When Israel UNILATERALLY withdrew from occupied territories, they were seen by the resistant forces as defeated.
I just wonder, if the Israel gov really wants to help the Lebanese rid of the terrorist group, shouldn't they have contacted the Lebanese gov first and asked them what they can do in cooperation to achieve it? Other militia groups in Lebanon had given up violence. More and more pressure from every part of the country has been on the Hizbullah to disarm. It was diplomacy seeking cooperation that's needed.
The Israel's invasion of Lebanon and the support of the Bush administration show that they do NOT have much confidence in democracy and they do NOT care much about it no matter how much they say they do.
July 23, 2006 2:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
In this day and age of the global internet, I am astonished that Israel,the US and the North American mainstream media think only the Muslims of the Middle East are outraged by the carnage Israel is heaping upon Lebanon. It looks like a land-grab to me: Turn southern Lebanon and the Occupied Territories into wastelands; herd all the Lebanese and Palestinians into Syria and Jordon; complete the wall, expand the settlements; establish a military protectorate over what remains of Lebanon, paid for by the international community; and declare that a Greater Israel with Jerusalem as its capital is the only route for peace. But it won't work. True peace depends upon justice, which means Israel sitting down with the democratically elected Palestinian government and negotiating an agreement that gives the Palestinian people a viable state.
July 23, 2006 2:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Well, I dont believe in "devils" and "terorists", there are just people with other opinions and other interests, that we must talk with, the more "radical" the better. There are some problems in the world, Israel in the borders of 48-67 or what? Certain types of suppression of women, the must wear certain things or they may not wear certain things, is it so much different? There is a lot of hysteria about that, but the label "terrorist" is not justified, never. In the case of Israel the borders must be defined and you cannot do this without the neighbors aka the Palestinensians and whoever is interested, the Palestinensians are weak.
Iran etc prefer a one state solution and if you read, for example, Haaretz's Underground section you understand why this is not possible. Israel is not a secular state, at least not currently. So the best that is currently possible is a two state solution along the borders of 67, that is open for future developments, when people have learned to live together. You may not force Hamas or whoever to agree to a two state solution that is designed to last forever. 20 or 50 years are enough.
Israel may not want such a future, but it is their only chance, or they have to leave. Villem Flusser, the Jewish media philosopher, who lived in Israel, pointed this out very clearly. Today it is even more obvious, the Arabs on the streets will make revolutions in Saudi Arabia, Jordania etc, they love Hezbollah, the Palestinensians voted for Hamas etc. This is progress, like it or not, the Arabs take their future into their own hand. You may call this "fundamentalism", but it has many faces and it not yet full developped.
Insofar the war is an action that goes exactly in the opposite direction, away from talks with the "radicals", that are the Arab "avant-garde". Dont think it can make the world more dangerous, it is allready dangerous, more danger is not seriously thinkable. It may create some more chaos. But it is also at best a cure for symptoms, not any remedy at all.
The source of it all is the braindead "war against terror", a desire for more power in the US, that have been "insulted" by the events of 9/11. Somebody in the hills shot back, after US missiles had missed him.
The times of Monika Levinski, Israel has a similar problem as well. And Ariel Sharon is dying.
July 23, 2006 2:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reading the comments here it is easy to see that a hundred years from now there will still be war in the middle east. I recall the well worn saying I heard growing up, "Never judge someone until you walk a mile in the other person's shoes."
I'm sure it's true on the radical Muslim side that they don't try to understand the West. But on our side I see a Bolton style we don't need to understand the other side, just enforce our will. No doubt this is possible. However it will take dropping nuclear weapons and killing roughly, a billion people? Or the West raising armies of a half billion and worse having to raise income taxes to support armies of half a billion. Iraq is proving you can't win with a mimimun force. We must be prepared to lose a couple of hundred million of our youth and worse again have our taxes doubled or tripled to completely overwhelm the Muslim. I don't think many have qualms about sacrificing a hundred million of our youth, but pay triple the taxes?
July 23, 2006 2:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If Israel's stated intent is to impel Lebanese authorities by raw force to suppress and disarm Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, how does shattering Lebanon's infrastructure, bankrupting the Lebanese economy, rendering the Lebanese government impotent, massacring large numbers of Lebanese civilians through errant bombing, and inflaming opinion within Lebanon's army, political classes and populace alike help toward this objective?
July 23, 2006 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The North Vietnamese were seeking the destruction of South Vietnam. South Vietnam was a U.S. ally. The North Vietnamese never waivered on their goal to destroy South Vietnam. When Kissenger negotiated with North Vietnam, he did so with the solid understanding that he was undercutting an "ally." After losing 50,000 plus American lives, Kissenger was forced to recognize that U.S. national interest was not synonymous with South Vietnamese national interest and that the cold war ideology that had erroneously unified the two countries in a protracted military effort against North Vietnam had long outlived its political utility.
America has not yet reached the pain threshold required to recognize that U.S. interests are not identical to Isreali interests in the Middle East. That day is fast approaching however.
The "Global War on Terrorism" has no politically definable endstate. Accordingly, GWOT is perpetual war couched in the ancient terms of good versus evil. The cold war ideology brought America into Vietnam and told us that the global struggle against communism was morally justified. Communism was evil incarnate and had to be stopped before reaching our shores. Well, the North Vietnamese won, the sky didn't fall, and life in Choctaw, Oklahoma never changed.
Good can never compromise with evil. As long as GWOT is defined in those terms, no obtainable objectives will be reached and no solutions will be found.
July 23, 2006 1:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hatred is there...collective punishment or not. When Israel has withdrawn from disputed and occupied territories, she has been punished for her leniency. The actions of Hamas and Hezbollah are more than enough proof of that, and even the Arabs recognize this.
Kissinger talked to the North Vietnamese, but they were reasonable in their objectives, willing and able to negotiate in good faith, and were not seeking the destruction of the United States.
All accomodations that have been made to the Arab world by the US and Israel have been met with contempt and violence. That is not a reasonable foundation for negotiations.
This is all part of the same war...the war on terror. Failure to confront murderers will only breed more murder.
July 23, 2006 12:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments
1. We are rushing precision bombs to Israel; we supply weapons and money. We are Israeli sponsors just as Iran sponsors Hizbollah.
2. The critical question about any war is who remains when the firing stops and what do they, the survivors, believe? Israel has a ÔøΩrightÔøΩ to defend itself, but others have a duty to step in if that defense is evil (Why did Israelis bomb Lebanese army posts, why did they destroy roads and bridges before telling the population to evacuate) and destructive. Hizbollah are ruthless killers, but most Lebanese support them. Refusing to talk with them makes a long term solution impossible.
3. This is the same shock and awe that Donald Rumsfeld thought would pacify Iraq ÔøΩ the big high tech penis...It will have the same miserable effect in Lebanon ÔøΩcivil war. Collective punishment breeds hatred. Israel wants to remove ÔøΩthe terrorist infrastructureÔøΩ. They can destroy tunnels, but the terrorist infrastructure is mental. There is no military solution to a bad attitude of thousands of Muslims. The Israelis drove Arafat and Fatah from Lebanon in 1982 by causing death and destruction. The world has changed. Hizbollah is not Arafat, has more respect in Lebanon, and tremendous support and sympathy from outside Muslims who will flood into Lebanon to help create a Little Big Horn for the IDF. We have four wars raging in the Middle East: Iraq and Afghanistan (big wars where the US and coalition forces have lost ground, and must be very careful where they go), Gaza and Lebanon (little wars upon which idiots Bush and Olmert are pouring gasoline). Newt Gingrich and the Daily Standard say bomb those Iranians, bring it on. They will produce nuclear war in the Middle East (Paki bombs) and terrible insecurity for both the US and Israel. They don't understand 4th generation war, they don't realize that fighting an enraged Muslim world is like expecting to beat the house at a prolonged blackjack game - you may win for an hour but sooner or later the bottomless pocket of the house will clean you out. The one billion plus Muslims are a bottomless pocket. We can't kill them all; the more we permit Israel to run amok in Lebanon, the more jihadis are born, and the more likely that Sunnis and Shiites unite against us, the sponsors of Israel, the guys who rushed the bombs to the IDF. Hizbollah is more numerous and competent than Al Qaeda. Do we want a coalescence of all 4 wars in the Middle East? We have much more to lose than Hizbollah.
4. When the shooting stops in Lebanon, will the survivors believe that their system was wrong (as did the survivors of Nazi Germany) or will they believe that the US and Israel must be stopped at any cost?
5. Kissinger talked to the North Vietnamese. The US must talk to Syria, Hizbollah and other angry Muslim groups. Compromise is possible without elimination of the state of Israel. IsraelÔøΩs many nuclear weapons provide no security against jihadis.
July 23, 2006 12:24 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Live by the sword, die by the sword. You only have to lose once.
July 23, 2006 12:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Funny that so many here acknowledge the reality and go out of their way to justify the muslim declaration of open war on Israel.
It only proves the point that there can be no accomodation with those that believe God would bless a prayer for revenge, and that ultimately Israel is justified in confronting those that overtly seek her destruction.
Those that believe that Israel is the agressor are dishonest, those that believe that Israel should accomodate those that attack her are hopelessly naive if they believe that such accomodation will do anything but invite further muslim extremism.
The "Plan of Phases" is now being implemented. Sadly the "useful idiots" are blind to its meaning.
July 23, 2006 11:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
""Move Israel to UTAH and/or Brooklyn, and in few years, we will have a war between USA and the new IsraUSAel.
Stop and pray for the children of Lebanon and their new quest for revenge against the terrorists israelis.""
Thats why the British took them to occupy Palestine, all knew at that time that it wouldn't work.
July 23, 2006 10:56 AM | Report Offensive Comments
"The U.S. and Israel withdraw from the Middle East—the Israelis all emigrating to America and America moving away from oil as an energy source. This second choice also assumes that the U.S. and Israel make peace with all other major powers and then whatever problems the Middle East poses will be countered by a universal will—the will to contain the Middle East until it becomes civilized and willing to enter civilized relationships with the major nations. Which choice will the U.S. and Israel make?"
Move Israel to UTAH and/or Brooklyn, and in few years, we will have a war between USA and the new IsraUSAel.
Stop and pray for the children of Lebanon and their new quest for revenge against the terrorists israelis.
July 23, 2006 10:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Those who kill human beings are murderers ... Those who let drop bombs and launch cruise missiles to hurt and kill human beings are criminals - no, them are war criminals and belong to be severely punished - like nazi leaders at the end of WWII!
July 23, 2006 10:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The battle between Israel and Hezbollah and Hamas has certainly made it more dangerous for civilians who get in the way. That's also the case with the American fight against the growing Iraqi resistance. Which begs a curious question... why are more civilians being killed in the Middle East than combatants? Take your pick - Iraq, Lebanon, or Gaza. If you're going to bomb a country into submission, the only way you'll conquer the hearts and minds of its people is by killing all of them. Which is why this conflict will never end. In this kind of war, you're either the victor or the victim.
July 23, 2006 10:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Again virtually every response requires Israel to make accomodation with those that promise her destruction.
1. Israel offered 98% of Occupied territories, including parts of east jerusalem. That was not only rejected by the muslim world, but the only response was a rein of terror. The Al-Aqsa mosque is a relatively minor site (the 3rd most holy muslim site after Mecca and Medina) whereas it sits on the holiest site in Judaism. Why is the muslim entitled to the three holiest sites, while Israel is not entitled to one? Moreover with every attempt by Israel to cede land such as Lebanon and Gaza has been met with violence, why should surrendering Jerusalem be any different?
2. Having been offered the Palestinians far more than they had a reasonable expectation of, I fail to see the wisdom of accomodating those that refuse to accomodate you.
3. The oft-repeated myth of Israeli domination of U.S. politics is simply rehashing the same mindless anti-semitism of centuries past, not to mention overtly plagarizing the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". It's simply a myth, a search of the FEC will reveal that there isn't a single israeli group in the top 25 PACs. AIPAC, despite it's name has nothing to do with political contributions.
4. U.S. military support of Israel might stop if the rest of the world stopped arming the Arab nations that threaten her. Even still we see those that overtly call for Israel's destruction, "festering wound" or not, why should Israel accomodate them? Would you negotiate with a neigbor who has a gun to your head? or do you protect yourself?
Again there is this persistent myth, that there can be compromise and accomodation. There is no compromising with someone who wants you dead, one has only to look at the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression pact to know that. Any such agreement is merely buying time for one-side to regroup and pursue their destructive agenda by another means or method.
July 23, 2006 10:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as there is a Nation of Israel there. Israel is like a festering wound to all the Nations in the Middle East. Without the Billions of American aid Israel is not in its self a viable Nation. The cost to maintain Israel in a hostile region is in the final analysis unsustainable & only increases the hate of American throughout the World & provide fuel & recruits for the terrorist. As long as Israel remains & this Nation keeps supporting Israel there will never be an end to wars and destruction in the Middle East nor will the more moderate Islam Mullahs prevail in the war of ideals about the Islam religion against the Islam extremist!
So in reality there are two choices for American:
A. Abandon Israel & quit providing Arms, & Aid to prop Israel up & let the Arab Nations destroy Israel. This Choice is something that will never be acceptable to the American Public or should it be! It would only embolden the Terrorist into thinking they could conquer the rest of Western Nations & increase terrorism!
B. Resettle the Israel people in the USA by evicting the Millions of Illegal Aliens in Calif. and selling the State to Israel for a homeland. Calif. is well on its way to becoming a dependant state of Mexico. It would be much better for the USA and the world for it to be a Jewish State. Mexico will turn the State into a Slum with rampant Crime, Corruption & Drugs. The Jewish people will turn into one of the worlds riches Nations on par with Japan.
July 23, 2006 9:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Sadly all three of the panelists present an identical point of view, without any consideration to the purpose of a panel providing both sides of an issue.
That said, the common complaint seems to reveal a constant preoccupation with "muslim anger" and the associated backlash it threatens. Sadly there is no representation of why muslims might not be the victims they're portrayed to be in this one-sided discussion. The myth that the US is somehow losing credibility with the Arab world is purely disingenuous. We never had the credibility to begin with, and if going to war 4 times during the 1990s to protect muslim life doesn't buy any good will but more terror, than nothing we can do ever will. Moreover the U.S./Israeli alliance is the only thing that has prevented Israel from more aggressively securing its borders and displacing even more Arabs. Again the bad faith of the muslim community is apparent, they do not want peace, they want to destroy Israel, and any accomodation that is made to them is repaid with even more violence.
It is high-time that the muslim world start gaining some credibility with the west, and the emphasis on accomodation with thugs and murderers is a recipe for more violence. There is no accomodation or agreement to be had with those that have sworn your destruction. If the muslim world wants to be taken seriously, than it must act to rein in its bad actors. If the want to be make an agreement, they must show that they are capable of enforcing, let alone keeping it. Without this sort of credibility, let alone good faith, it is only natural that those that are attacked respond in kind.
Can Israel destroy Hezbollah? Probably not, but it can create a condition where the Lebanese army, can finally assert control and secure their border from those internal groups that would provoke a war with their neighbor. Will this engender anger on the part of Lebanese? It will, but it shouldn't if the Lebanese are honest about the reason for their plight. Even still, in the 6 years since Israel has left Lebanon, and the months since it left Gaza, it has seen no respite in the rocket attacks launched from these territories and has tolerated the intolerable. Why should Israel fear more anger?
In the post 9/11 world it is natural that American sympathies be with Israel in the face of the same nihilistic enemy. The complaint that Bush is trying to enforce peace by force is hopelessly simplistic. Decades of negotiation, accomodation and fighting for muslim lives was repaid with the first WTC bombing, Khobar, the Embassy Bombings, USS Cole and 9/11. War is the remedy muslim extremism has chosen, not us. It behooves the moderates to marginalize and control these extremists if they want peace, rather than once again reflexively bashing the west for their own problems.
July 23, 2006 9:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I don't like the question. Who says that Israel is an ally of the US ? It's the pro-Israel lobby (I don't like the word Jewish lobby neither the word Jewish state) that sells this "idea" to the US public. I'm sure if the US would give the Palestinian people a own state on the complete occupied territories including East Jeruasalem and the Al Aqsa mosque, all this wouldn't be necessary. Israel accepts every Jew (their definition) as a citizen ofthough his ancesters haven't lived there for a 2.000 years, but denies citizenship (and voting rights) to Palestinians who were chased less than 50 or 30 years ago. Israel is not a democracy for the people of former Palestine ! Israel is not an ally !
July 23, 2006 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I am astonished that I am not seeing anyone in the press ask themselves why the Israelis are fighting the same war they fought 24 years ago? Isn't someone going to ask the pragmatic question, does the policy of mass retaliation and humiliation work? Doesn't seem to, now does it. When are the Israelis going to realize that occupying Arab land while brutalizing civilian population guarantees them a permanent supply of suicide bombers?
And we in the US might ask ourselves the same question since we have adapted the same strategy. As far as the US and Israel go, we should be renaming the War on Terror, the Muslim Radicalization Project, that way at least we could claim some success.
July 23, 2006 8:21 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Current events in the Middle East and the bombardment of Lebanon demonstrate that Washingtonís underlying objective is to make the region safe for dictators. Policymakers in Washington, mostly the neoconservatives, seem to reach a conclusion that the Arab people are not a burden any more; rather they are a threat. Therefore the use of force, intimidation, and strengthening Arab dictators are a useful means along with terrorism to strip the Arab masses of their dignity and pride, and ultimately ensure their submission.
It is doubtful, however, that in the long term such approach will be successful. It willonly deepen suffering and create perpetual grief.
July 23, 2006 8:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
If we have learned one thing from the war in Iraq ( " we will be greeted with flowers in the street) is that the dynamics of war are never the same and simply cannot be predicted. Nor does ignoring a problem ( the Bush foreign policy formula for Iran, Middle East and North Korea) bring about results. Expect the unexpected.
The U.S. needs to be engaged in a realistic and continous manner ( i.e. without the idealogues neo conservatives driving some idealistic and unrealistic results) with all parties and especially our enemies to insure that we do retain some leverage.
Unfortunately it will not happen while this disastrous team of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and Rice are in charge.
July 23, 2006 7:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Does anyone have any ideas who is going to pay for rebuilding Lebanon? We (the United States) can't even rebuild Iraq or Katrina?
July 23, 2006 7:08 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The question ought to be whether the rest of world can ever be safe be from the United States( for over 100 years)and Israel (at least sixty years) which are colonizing and/or destroying soverign nations and committing crimes against humanity ?
July 23, 2006 6:58 AM | Report Offensive Comments
July 23, 2006 6:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
This hegemonical US-Israel war against the democratic multi-ethnic state of Lebanon is illegal, breaks international laws and conventions and will generate everything else but peace. It will going to end up with a political disaster for USA.
The question you will be hearing more often: Was the founding of Israel in the Near East the strategic mistake of the West?
No, if US steps aside and the world community (without US) guarantees und guards the original Israeli borders.
July 23, 2006 6:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It is hard to imagine how Israel will ever be safer as long as the main issues among occupied and the occupier remain unresolved. However the safety of western democracies depends on their level of support for unpopular and despotic regimes in the region as well as their alliance with the occupiers.
These regimes control the territory that Al-Ghaeda absorbs anti western combatants who disregard any respect for human life. Israeli officials are now convinced that this block is the new moderate arabs while they used to refer to them as "kingdom of terror". this so called post 9/11 axis of western liberal deemocracies - despotic arab states with western secular tendencies with the self serving approval of the occupying zionist rejime is indeed the same old geo political map that we have been experiencing within the last 60 years that have kept us in the cycle of violence for so many years with one major difference that I would call the rise of the Islamic democracy and the creation of a powerful and strong democratic islamic alliance in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine and evolving in Syria as well. A model of multi ethnic socities, living in peace and respect and goverend by popularly elected governments that not only uphold their cultural identity as a legitimate and modern beleif, but makes it an ideal alternative for the desparate and angry arab population where their integrity cannot be violated by the zionist aggression or intimidation.
The future threat to west from the east as it was in the past lies within the heart of their past and present axis of despotism-zionism- western liberal democracies. Israel based on the objective it has set for the war had lost it since Day 1. This war does not have a winner. Since Israel cannot meet its objectives, therefore Hizbollah will be declared a winner again and the alliance will be intact and stronger than before. A huge psychological boost and confidence transformation in the arab public opnion of losing a war in 6 days by "moderate" arab states than winning it on Day 1 by a national resistance group. IDF superiority is now an illusion that only "moderate despots" are willing to succumb to it.
The permanent safety for Israel goes through South Africanization process. Dismantle the racist regime, give up your nuclear weapons, conduct a referrendum on the future, elect a democratic government, join the democratic alliance and oppose despotism and terrorism in the middle east.
July 23, 2006 6:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
On the ground, Israel is wining by targeting a political party; but in reality Hezbollah by resisting Israel has managed to dwarf the military power of Israel in the eyes of the Muslim people of Middle East. Now, Israel cannot afford to lose face in this conflict and let Hezbollah to declare victory.
Israel and its allies can gain in this conflict if they manage to get a concession from Syria in return for a ceasefire. Attacking Syria may be the next step in escalation of conflict, but who will gain in such a conflict?
For attacking Syria, Israel first needs to capture the whole Lebanon and then attack Syria. Ironically Iran will love such an attack because 1) it may bring a more Islamic regime in Syria replacing the secular Asad and 2) it will put more pressure on the Arab countries to join the Hezbollah-Syria fight againt Israel. 3) More importantly Iran will get off the hook for a couple of more months or years. Syria should be reminded that with Shiites in power in Iraq, Syria has lost its appeal for the Iranian regime. The turning point in Iran's relations with Syria was the departure of Hussein Sheikholeslam - a godfather of Hezbollah - from Syria to Tehran as an MP focusing on Iraq's file.
It is hard to say whether Israel will also win from attacking Syria, but it will look foolish if Isreal had no plan to attack Syria after destroying the infrastructure of Lebanon. A win-win scenario for both Israel and Syria will be Syria's move away from Iran (and Hezbollah) and in return Israel's preparation of the ground for
a permanent peace with Syria by giving back the Syrian occupied territory.
It is in the interest of Syria to follow the example of Lybia and separate its way from Iran now and get something out of it, because when Iran falls this September (or later), Syria will be forced to face the reality and then it is not in a position to bargain. Syria cannot afford to be sacrificed for the sake of Iranians. A deal between Syria and Israel is in the interest of both sides and the only good thing that may come out of this destruction and war.
July 23, 2006 5:30 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It seems to me that Israel has spent 50 years winning every battle and losing the war. The brutal exercise of military superiority to kill unarmed civilians and destroy Lebanon's infrastructure is not self-defense. It is insanity. Are they trying to unite the whole world, or just the Middle East behind Hezbollah?
If their tactics worked, Israel would have been safe and secure long ago. And they are not. No country in the region may be willing to directly attack Israel today, but revenge and oil money can certainly supply missiles and terrorists for a long time to come.
For secure borders, Israel needs alliances and mutually beneficial relationships with neighbors. Choosing to bomb Lebanon's infrastructure shortly after the Syrians were forced out seems shortsighted and self-destructive.
Israel's actions have increased the danger to themselves. We've increased the danger to ourselves by rushing more weapons to Israel now and encouraging them to continue bombing a country that cannot even defend itself.
July 23, 2006 5:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
The more I think about this problem the uglier it gets. We have the Jews replanted on soil that has since been occupied by other plants and America of course right behind not giving a whit about living plants but rather concerned about dead plants underneath the soil in the form of oil and the both (Israel and America) forced more and more each day to fight "terrorism" which is the only option the Muslims have to defend themselves in the face of their world modified toward essentially what America and Israel want...I would say things are coming down to having to wipe out the Muslims or the U.S. and Israel having to back out of the Middle East...In other words the U.S. and Israel going forwards and hoping this does not clash with Russia, China, etc. or backing out of the Middle East and tolerating a greater influence there by Russia, China, etc....I vote for the U.S. and Israel backing out and working toward alternative energy sources and not worrying too much if other nations go into the Middle East for oil. In fact that problem can be solved by helping all nations toward alternative energy. Or is this a dream? My brain is muddled. The only thing I know for certain is that the war on terror is virtually synonomous with the U.S. and Israel sticking their noses in the Middle East—that we have a war on terror but all of the terror except for the extremely rare exception is occurring in the Middle East and the Muslims seem to be suffering the far greater casualties. But perhaps I am not reading the news correctly...Well! Onward! On to Syria, Iran! Breed more Jews and expand Israel to be the entire Middle East! And of course the reward for the U.S. helping will be free oil! Then we can all have huge cars—or better yet: We can all drive around in those super Israeli tanks....(Jews should not take this as antisemitism. I have no problem marrying a Jew provided she comes to the United States. I really should not have to explain this....).
July 23, 2006 5:02 AM | Report Offensive Comments
DANIEL said what Europeans pray for: Move Israel to where it belongs: to USA.
July 23, 2006 4:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Putting the problem in the broadest perspective and taking it into consideration that Israel and the U.S. are inextricably united I would say things are coming down to two choices. 1) The U.S. and Israel forced to be utterly ruthless and dominate the Middle East for the sake of oil and Israel. In other words willing to dominate the Middle East and challenge all other major powers—bet the other powers will not have the will to interfere. Or 2) The U.S. and Israel withdraw from the Middle East—the Israelis all emigrating to America and America moving away from oil as an energy source. This second choice also assumes that the U.S. and Israel make peace with all other major powers and then whatever problems the Middle East poses will be countered by a universal will—the will to contain the Middle East until it becomes civilized and willing to enter civilized relationships with the major nations. Which choice will the U.S. and Israel make?
July 23, 2006 2:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
To make the world saver, negotiating a swap is food for thought.
I suggest we swap the U.S. for the Arab world and Australia for Iran.
New Zealand and Canada should definitely have a say in this new road map to world peace. As you can see I have not yet gotten to the details. I am open for any suggestions to make this world more peaceful.
July 23, 2006 2:44 AM | Report Offensive Comments
I just can't see the logic in it. The democratically-elected government in Lebanon was pretty much Bush's only foreign policy success, and he meekly acquiesced when Israel said they needed more time to destroy it a little more completely - then casually swatted aside the US suggestion that they should only bomb innocent people for another week. As long as it takes, we said; now shut up and keep those tax dollars coming, Georgie: we're busy here.
Israel's defense of their actions is that the enemy blends in with the civilian population, so that's justification for bombing everybody. Well, Israel has conscription, for both males and females - how is that not the enemy blending in with the civilian population, from Hezbollah's viewpoint?
It seems there's nothing Israel can do that the United States will not stand to attention and salute. Well, if you'd like a preview of how that relationship will be viewed in future, take a look at who is assuming responsibility for the Lebanese refugees now - Syria. Syria has opened its borders, doesn't even bother with bag checks, and hands out telephone numbers of families willing to take in refugees. Those are the people America had driven out of Lebanon. Excellent public relations, America. What goes around comes around, and folks have long memories in the Middle East.
July 23, 2006 1:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
It Might Help if the USA held Back the "RUSH" order for More Bombs by Israel.I think this Conflict has just Caused the World to Hate the USA and Israel MORE and Not Just Muslims.I Don't think Israel had to Destroy the Whole Country of Lebanon when the Country was Just Finished rebuilding After 15 years of Civil war.It's Getting old having Israel Portrayed as Defenseless when it HAS WMDS and the 4 th Largest Military in the World.I think Many of the World's People are Just getting Sick of Israel crying VICTIM and than using a Cannon to Swat a FLY.Israeli Deaths are a SMALL percentage when Compared to the Deaths of Arabs.34 Israelis compared to 300 Lebanonese.Israel Doesn't Come Out On Top Here and With tha USA Not Stepping In I Fear the Americans Will Suffer More than Israelis.Bush Has Done Much damage to the American Image in the World.many in the world has lost the TRUST of America and that is the Saddest part.The American people are Really Not Like Bush at All but the World Judges You By Your Government.I Don't Think the USA was Respected throughout the World because You were Feared I think the Respect Came From the TRUST we had In America and Bush has Just Casted Aside with his "you're with Us or You're against Us". The USA is No Longer Seen as a FAIR Broker in the M.E. and that I think will be the Real Problem for NOW. You're Seen as Israel FIRST and Maybe We'll Talk to the Other Side.WHY Couldn't Bush Have AT Least ONE Person that was NOT a YES MAN????In 6 years Bush Let the M.E. fester and Now We have This Again.when will the Media Call Bush On His Mistakes You Sure as Hell were ALL over Clinton and He Still managed to Do His JOB.As A Canadian I Hold the American MSM to Blame for Bush Being ALLOWED to Get OFF with everything Not One of you Had the GUTS to Speak OUT or Ask TOUGH Questions. Only Helen Thomas and All the Other Journalists Let The WH Treat Her LIKE CRAP. She Showed Us What a REAL JOURNALIST IS .When Harper tried to CONTROL Our Press gallery in Ottawa the Journalists WALKED OUT!!! Haven't SEEN that From the WEAK MSM WH PRESS in The USA.
July 22, 2006 11:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments
On some level I guess it is progress, after the complete MSM failure on WMDs and the Iraq occupation, to be asking this question, but ultimately I still think it is a sell out. We are not safer because of our adventures (and failures) in nation building. Israel just made it much much worse this week. And where is Bush? The man who read my pet goat while the towers burned and fiddled while New Orleans drowned was eating pig and groping Merkle while the Middle East burned. Well, you are what you eat.
Freedom's on the march. Woo hoo!
July 22, 2006 11:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The real question is: would "negotiation" (read appeasement)with Syria and Iran make us safer? Or would it convinced them that bad behavior pays? Lebanon must take responsibility for its failure to disarm Hezbllah, just as Afghanistan had to pay for harboring Bin laden
Israel's problem is not that it is being too rough, but that it is not being rough enough. War is not a game of tag your it where both sides get to tag each other proportionally. As both Clausewitz and Sun Tzu would say the objectiveof war is not "proportionality: but the destruction of the enemies will and capability to resist. Here are two very relevant quotes from a war in the past"
"My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom"
"This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war."
-Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman
July 22, 2006 10:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Negative. Israel's actions are only hurting America's image further in the Muslim world. Israelis might be able to get their soldiers back and secure some temporary gain, but in the long run they will just earn the ill will of majority of Muslims. The more their actions appear illegitmate to Muslims (and the rest of the world), the more likely it becomes that actions of extremist elements like Al Qaeda will appear reasonble. I don't know why Israeli & American policy makes don't take this simple factor into account. True, Israel has a right to defend itself. But when you start taking your revenge indiscriminately (or when you make the world think that you are doing so), how can you expect anyone to like you anymore? Same goes for the U.S. foreign policy team. They can't do their homework? Or are they just indifferent and stubborn? Either way, it's not helping America/Israel.
July 22, 2006 10:30 PM | Report Offensive Comments
It is way to early to tell if the Israeli-Hesbollah conflict will make the world more dangerous, but, clearly, diplomacy failed, thereby leading to the present conflict.
Israel left Gaza, and pulled back from Lebenon after occupying the territory for 18 years. In addition, UN resolution 1559 stated that Hezbollah must disarm. Instead, the returned territories were used for staging areas for terrorist (Hezbollah and Hamas) activities.
Regardless of the affect on the rest of the world, Israel did not only what was right but also necessary for their survival.
July 22, 2006 9:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The plan CLEAN BREAK began in 1992 with the failed re-election of BUSH I. The War In Iraq is simply the first in a series of wars to turn the Middle East over to Israeli friendly governments. (See A Pretext for War by Bamford and Cheney's Song of America, Harper's October 2002).
The continuing horror story of genocide is simply a repetition of Beirut, Lebanon 1982, when Ariel Sharon's Likudnik party comitted atrocities at Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. The Israeli government censored him for those actions. If the Bush administration would stop supporting the genocidal actions of the extreme right in Israel, the world would probably be able to breathe more easily.
The truly sad truth is that everytime the United States blesses the extreme right in Israel, we lose. In 1983, we lost the Marine Barracks, the embassy, etc. Now, we have lost almost 3,000 of ours plus approximately 18,000 wounded. Those are the numbers the Rumsfeld Pentagon has released. I cannot help but wonder what the final toll will be in human life for the folly created by this administration.
President Clinton was impeached for a dalliance. What does it take in human death for this administration to have to take responsibility for this disastrous foreign policy dictated to the United States by the extreme right in Israel?
July 22, 2006 8:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments
July 22, 2006 8:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Any war ups the ante for more war. It is much easier to make and keep peace than to make and keep war. It is also more humane and less expensive. Problems? In peacetime there's not enough profit for manufacturers of arms manufactures — tanks, planes, rockets, electronics, ships, bombs etc. etc. which dominate corporate enterprise. Reconversion for peace could be done but takes courage, effort, ingenuity, a commitment to fairness, and above all the desire to broad public demand for the necessary changes. Also required would be better education everywhere to help people understand their differences and and share common goals and resources. War builds hatred and inhibits negotiation and peace. War will inevitably lead to a nuclear disaster unless it is stopped. The entire world is increasingly endangered because of the current wars in the Middle East. Why don't democratic governments do anything to stop it? Cowardice.
July 22, 2006 7:40 PM | Report Offensive Comments
the idea of war bringing about peace is an very interesting one — it m ay be argued that some do, but those wars have to be carefully done and history tells us that politicians very rarely are able to do that. World War II is used as an example of a "good" war, but that war was brought about by the disasterous way that world war I was ended.
Bush, in this instance, seems to be hoping that the Israeli army can bring about peace through war by destroying hezbolah and/or forcing syria to stop supporting it. This is just an extenstion of Bush's incorrect assumption that western countries can ever bring about peace in the middle east by military intervention, either by us or by proxies. History says such interventions never, ever, work bacause the people of the middle east always join together to fight that intervention in the end.
Can Israel force Iran and Syria to stop supporting Hezbolah? Of course not. So this must fail and failure will bring further disaster, just as the disaster of Iraq has.
July 22, 2006 7:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
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