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Saudi Textbooks Teach Students to Hate

Continuing yesterday's discussion on the role of Saudi funding in British mosques, Nina Shea of the Center for Religious Freedom sets Saudi Arabia's program of Wahhabi indoctrination into a global context following the Center's pioneering work examining the Kingdom's textbooks. Among the tens of thousands of schools using these textbooks worldwide is the Islamic Saudi Academy, run by the Saudi Embassy, in Fairfax, VA.

By Nina Shea

The Saudi Arabian Ministry of Education publishes and disseminates teachings that Muslims are to hate and treat as "enemies" other religious believers, including other, non-Wahhabi Muslims. Those were our findings in a 2006 study of Saudi government textbooks. And despite the media outcry that followed, our most recent investigation shows that Saudi textbooks, now available on the Saudi Ministry of Education website, have not been cleaned up. The same violent and intolerant lessons remain.

These textbooks assert that it is permissible for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," those practicing "major polytheism," and homosexuals. They promote global jihad as an "effort to wage war against the unbelievers," including for the purpose of "calling [infidels] to the faith." They continue to teach that "the hour [of judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them," that Shiite practices amount to "polytheism" (see above), that the Christian Crusades never ended, and that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are historical fact.

In these lessons, the Saudi government discounts or ignores passages in the Qur'an and in the accounts of the life of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad that support tolerance.

After the 9/11 attacks at the hands of largely Saudi terrorists, the King convened a panel of Saudi professionals who concluded that the religious textbooks "legitimiz[e] the violent repression of the 'other' and even his physical elimination because of his views on disputed issues...." Now noxious Saudi texts are being spread to Muslim communities on every continent.

Saudi Arabia has long sought to be the leading Islamic power and the protector of the faith, a claim asserted in the Saudi Basic Law. With its vast oil wealth and the religious legitimacy derived from its custodianship of the two Islamic holy shrines and control of the pilgrimage, Saudi Arabia's long-term ambitions are now within reach. Even as its official doctrine and school books remain rooted in Wahhabism, the blend of the harsh desert traditions and severe Islamic interpretations of its past, Saudi Arabia is positioning itself to be the authoritative voice of world Islam, with the King as a type of Islamic pope.

Since 1979, the year when Islamic terrorists laid siege to Mecca and threatened Saudi rule, and when a Shi'a regime seized control of Iran, Saudi Arabia has poured enormous sums into foreign evangelism, funding mosques, schools, libraries, and academic centers in the United States and many other countries. Some analysts estimate that over the past quarter century, Saudi Arabia has expended over $75 billion for spreading Wahhabism, roughly three times more a year than what the Soviet Union spent annually in exporting its ruling ideology during the height of the Cold War. The Congressional Research Service states that Wahhabism is now "arguably the most pervasive revivalist movement in the Islamic world." According to Lawrence Wright in his book Looming Tower, the Saudis, constituting one per cent of the world's Muslims, support through the Wahhabis "90 per cent of the expenses of the entire faith, overriding other traditions of Islam."

The Saudi ideological export is having an effect. Saudi Wahhabi extremism threatens to become a mainstream or even the dominant expression of Islam among the world's 1.3 billion Muslims. Wahhabi thought and customs are taking root in Muslim communities from the Netherlands and the United Kingdom, to Afghanistan, Algeria, Egypt, Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan, India and elsewhere. As Abdurrahman Wahid, the former President of Indonesia and ex-director of the world's largest Muslim organization lamented, it is making "inroads" even in his famously tolerant part of the world.

The beginning of the school year marks the deadline for Saudi Arabia to demonstrate it has removed intolerant teachings from all Saudi textbooks. This Saudi commitment resulted from extensive bilateral negotiations with the U.S., concluded and hailed by the United States State Department in July 2006. Under the International Religious Freedom Act of 1998, the State Department has annually designated Saudi Arabia as one of the world's most intolerant states but it has forestalled imposing the sanctions specified in the Act. It resists Congressional and other appeals even to translate for review the textbooks used at Islamic Saudi Academy, a Washington metropolitan area academy run by the Saudi Embassy.

It is time to hold Riyadh to its promises to reform its educational materials. Western security depends on it.

Nina Shea is director of the Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom and a Commissioner on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom. She is the author of 2008 Update: Saudi Arabia's Curriculum of Intolerance.


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Comments (123)

Observer:

NETGK asks:
"To Observer: Why do you not consider Christianity to be a cult as well?"
Islam is a cult because it fit’s the 15 characteristics of a cult. Christianity does not fit any of these characteristics. Those characteristics are listed by Ali Sina of Faithfreedom.org in his book called ”Understanding Mohammad” pages 163-169.

Netgk:

To Observer: Why do you not consider Christianity to be a cult as well?

Nina Shea:

In response to Eleanor Doumato’s concerns:

• The Center for Religious Freedom of the Hudson Institute’s 2006 and 2008 studies (www.hudson.org/religion) analyze Saudi Ministry of Education textbooks on religion used in Saudi public schools and disseminated internationally, including through the Saudi government’s website(http://www2.moe.gov.sa/ebooks/index.htm). In past years, the Islamic Saudi Academy (ISA) claimed to use such texts and continues to post on its website that “The Islamic Saudi Academy is a subsidiary of the Ministry of Education for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Hence, it follows the Islamic Studies curriculum which has been set forth by the Kingdom. The Islamic Studies curriculum is one of the most important subjects taught at the Academy….” http://www.saudiacademy.net/html/Curriculum-HighSchool.html.

• Whether or not this means that the curriculum continues to include the Saudi Ministry of Education religious books -- perhaps for certain segments of the student body, such as those who are planning to return to Saudi Arabia and must pass tests in Wahhabism to be placed at grade level, for example -- remains to be seen. Prof. Doumato states that the new ISA textbooks for the school year that started three days ago have been completely revised and that she has reviewed the texts personally. Similar assurances about last year’s textbooks were given by ISA’s director to the Washington Post on Jan. 10, 2008 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/09/AR2008010903338.html). Such past deception by Saudi officials raises the possibility that in the U.S.- based academy there may now be more than one curriculum and that Prof. Doumato may not have been shown all the books. The Islamic Saudi Academy should post all its textbooks online so that such claims can be independently verified. What we do know (from the Ministry of Ed website) is that Saudi textbooks still being officially disseminated have not been thoroughly revised, something the Saudi government has made explicit commitments to the US State Department to do.

• Congressman Frank Wolf (R-VA) -- the ranking member of the U.S. House of Representatives’ Appropriations Subcommittee that funds the State Department -- has repeatedly requested the State Department to provide a complete translation of the schools’ textbooks and issue an official assessment of the content on the books. His three letters to Sec. Rice can be found on his website (http://wolf.house.gov/).

• The U.S.Commission on International Religious Freedom, an independent, government agency established by Congress on which I serve, requested Saudi government textbooks repeatedly during and following its trip to Saudi Arabiain May-June 2007, including to the Saudi Ambassador, to no avail. The Commission made such requests because the academy is chaired by the Ambassador, operated by the embassy and calls itself a “subsidiary” of the Saudi Ministry of Education. Shortly after the Commission raised the issue publicly, the Saudi government turned over textbooks used at the ISA to the State Department, but as of this writing and despite requests, the Department has not made them available either to the public or to the Commission, nor has it released any statement about the content of the books that it received. In Appendix B of my July study is a January 2, 2008 response of the State Department to Senator Jon Kyl essentially refusing to turn the ISA books over to USCIRF. The State Department misleadingly wrote in that letter that ISA has offered to make the books available to USCIRF. ISA invited USCIRF to “visit” the school, but translating and analyzing the texts required months of work that could not be accomplished in a short visit. The State Department wrote to S. Kyl that it was “premature” at that time to judge the Saudi government’s efforts at textbook reform, and that “in July of 2006, the Saudi Government confirmed to us its policy to undertake a program of textbook reform to eliminate all passages that disparage or promote hatred toward any religion or religious groups. This process is scheduled to be completed in time for the start of the 2008 school year.” That deadline is now upon us. A good summary of the State Department and the Saudi textbooks can be found in a Heritage Foundation research brief at: http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm2042.cfm.

• Although it was unable to obtain the entire collection, during the last school year the Commission managed to acquire and review 17 ISA textbooks in use then from the Institute for Gulf Affairs (www.gulfinstitute.org) , which is a Washington-based research group that acquired some religious texts through unofficial means, and a congressional office. While the texts represent just a small fraction of the books used in this Saudi government school, the Commission’s review confirmed that these texts did, in fact, include passages justifying violence toward, and even the killing of, apostates and so-called polytheists. Last year’s texts also include highly intolerant passages about non-Sunni Muslims, such as Shi’a, Ismailis, and Ahmadis, and non-Muslims, such as Jews and Baha’is. The Islamic Saudi Academy is operated by the Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia and is not a private or parochial school. The government of Saudi Arabia as a Member State of the United Nations is obliged to uphold fundamental human rights and such passages do not conform to international human rights norms. The June 11, 2008 Commission report on the ISA textbooks can be found at http://www.uscirf.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2206&Itemid=46.

In October 2007, the Commission called for the ISA to be closed under the terms of the Foreign Missions Act until the official Saudi textbooks used at the school were made available for comprehensive public examination. Soon afterwards, the ISA dropped the language on its web site stating that its Arabic-language and Islamic studies curriculum “is based on the Curriculum of the Saudi Ministry of Education.” (Though it now as of this writing is again posted, as described above.) In the months following the Commission’s report, the Saudi government has also posted copies of the official 2007-2008 Saudi textbooks on the Internet, which texts were the subject of my July 2008 study.

Because fundamental human rights to religious freedom are at stake, as well as U.S.national security interests, the U.S. State Department should ensure that the Saudi government thoroughly revises all its textbooks and that all the Saudi government schools, including the one outside Washington, D.C., are complying with the government’s commitments and repeated promises to do so. Given the record, transparency about the textbooks – and all Saudi government textbooks wherever and to whomever they are disseminated -- is required. Transparency is not an end in itself, as the Saudi government’s Ministry of Education web site demonstrates, but it will expose some of the problems we face from our ally.

Nina Shea, Director Hudson Institute’s Center for Religious Freedom

Observer:

Mohd Allam predicts:
“Vcause the modern science proved the facts about Islam. How much to try to defame ISlam,Islam atlast will be religion of Europe and America.”

You mention science and Islam in the same sentence. This alone indicates you are living in a world that exists only in your head. Science searches for reality and reality says that with the present proliferation of means of communication your cult is shrinking faster than we could gauge. Six million Muslims convert to Christianity every year in Africa alone. Bangladesh now has 10 million Christians while Pakistan has 6 million Christians when few years ago had none. This is according to a Muslim missionary who appeared on Al Jazira TV recently.
http://www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972

mohammad allam:

To
OBserver
This time Islam will be preach by the people of west themselves.This time no need to send army or go for war but send True Muslims and convert the people of west in Islam.The social condition of West providng great opportunity for spreading of Islam.You keep in mind that human being is made of spirituality also.You society is just full of all sort of parties but nil from spiritual parties.so,all those who will look for spiritualitu now they will turm towards Islam.Vcause the modern science proved the facts about Islam.How much to try to defame ISlam,Islam atlast will be religion of Europe and America.Europe will again rule the world but under banner of Islam.What i am saying ,think in term of youth who want to run from the present society and take refuge where you know well.so donot worry what i am saying,saying on data about islam in present context.

stupid:

poor halozzzzcel..

caliphate is based on Quran and hadist.. not by somebody, someone.. so there is no single person can rule or create law without complied Quran and hadist.. By the way.. have you read carefully Quran or you just talking and talking Because someone tells you about Islam really about?

AMH:

Usama says:
“This article doesn't show actual proof of these claims. Verbatim quotes from textbooks? References?”

If this is an attempt to saw the seeds of doubt as to the claim that these Saudi funded schools teach intolerance, then it failed miserably.
Don’t the Saudi schools teach the Quran? That is all what is needed to know whether they teach tolerance or intolerance. Below is one of a large number of similar Quranic jewels found in the link at the bottom.

Soon shall We cast terror
Into the hearts of the Unbelievers,
For that they joined companions
With God, for which He had sent
No authority; their abode
Will be Fire;
( Quran 3:151)
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/int/long.html

sabataiyci:

The best thing to do if you want to dilute the influence of the wahhabi in that country is to use some Turkish-Shabbatian methods. Our methods are very effective. In fact they have been in use for almost 200 years.

We have managed to destroy the Islamic moral principles of the Turkish family when we concentrated on stripping the Moslem Turkish women form their Islamic principles.

Moslem women are the heart of the Moslem society. Liberating them means liberating the whole society.

Take the example of the Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Shabbatian descendent and God-like figure in modern Turkey, who made the women Angora(Ankara) dance with European men. This gesture was the beginning of liberating Turkish women from their old Islam Ottoman principles.

You must do this to the daughters of the Wahhabis if you want peace to spread all over the world. They must reach for the forbidden love which deprived from. Soon enough, you will see their children flirting with Israeli young men and women who kill Palestinians when they serve in the Army!

Observer:

David alleges;
“Islam has no relation whatsoever to terrorism or violence.”

Feast your eyes on the following gem; one out of many such jewels in the Quran.

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29 ." (Commentary in parenthesis is from the Tafsir Al-Jalalein. i.e., Al-Jalalein Interpretation of the Koran.)”

The following was taken from the link cited below.

“Muhammad told his followers to attack the Jews and Christians. If they humble themselves and submit to the Muslims, but choose to remain Christian or Jewish, then they would have to pay the Muslims. Again, Muhammad's circumstances changed - Allah changed. Now Muhammad was an extortionist."

"Also note that the tax levied upon the Christians and Jews was not to support the state in general affairs, it was to compensate the Muslims. Muhammad was exactly like Mafia crime boss, making others pay for "protection".... except, the Christians and Jews really needed protection from the Muslims!”

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm

DAVID:

Islam has no relation whatsoever to terrorism or violence. For those who do not know about Islam, this web site might be of interest to them: www.islam-guide.com OR www.islamalways.com . I ask ALLAH to let all of us live in peace and harmony. Thank you.


Robert B:

"Night of the Long Guns"...."Religious Reich" ...."Shooting war."

Sounds scary, TOM3 dude! I bet it's an awesome video game for your Playstation...or Wii or whatever.


Keep me posted on the latest/greatest in the video-gaming world so I know what's hot to get for my kids.


Thanks, you're a pal Tommy-boy!


Tom3:

Sorry, anonymous dude, I'm not from Bulgaria. Never even visited. I don't think they even brew beer, so they're not on my radar. I could probably find them on a map if it has Sofia on it.

There IS a culture war in the US being waged by the Religious Right and the Republican party.

Or the Religious Reich and the Repuke party, as I prefer to call them.

I have long predicted that this culture war will become a shooting war. It has already happened in a Unitarian church and in a Democratic party office. Just a taste of things to come.

When St. Paul MN police raided the houses of journalists and beat down Amy Goodman and her TV crew, that was a test. They want to see if they can arrest lefties with impunity. Fortunately, it did not work this time.

An army of ignorant, angry rednecks awaits. The "Night Of The Long Guns" is coming. They won't be happy until they have the US in the iron grip of fascism. Corporate fascism.

Please google Dominionism, there are over 98,000 references and I'm sure they're not all from Bulgaria. Its synonym Theocracy has over 2,100,000 hits on Google.

Omar:

Oh Good lord, Garak. I'm not a member of the christian right; but to suggest that the citizenry of the United states, which has fostered and maintained the separation of church and state for more than 200 years, was somehow "duped" into it is, quite frankly, ridiculous on its face.

Anonymous:

TOM3 sounds like the Bulgarian poster "CULTOROUS" at the On Faith board. He posted this on the Eboo Patel's muslim forum:

"The right wing christian fascists have invested too much in the party they've bought and infested to let it go now.

They declared this culture war, they aren't going to give up. Now they have placed one of their finest dominionists a mere drop of cyanide away from the presidency.

I wonder how many of the republican faithful know who the dominionists really are. I wonder how many of you evangelical foot soldiers know that you will go the way of the brown shirts once they have taken control.

The non-religious aren't going to be able to protect our country from these people. If you really care about your country, you will educate yourself on who these people are, and run them out of your party. Is winning the next election but losing your soul worth the trade?"

And then challenged readers to google DOMINIONIST. He even gave a link:

http://www.google.bg/search?q=dominionist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t

Apparently unaware his google link was sourced through Bulgaria.

OOPS!

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/eboo_patel/2008/09/jerry_falwells_ghost_religious/all_comments.html

Robert B:

Why, what a cheerful note from TOM3!! I guess he just emerged from the Church of Holy Slumber on this Sunday morning or, more likely, the Church of New York Times liberal-mind control. But I doubt he reads much of anything (or is able to). He likes to amuse himself with oh-so-witty 'chimpy' references. And he seems to be fascinated by homosexual relationships.

As I have stated before, it is a relief that TOM3 is not of voting age.

Tom3:

Don't expect the Chimpy Regime and his feeble federal goverment to change this.

The Saudis are our allies. Despite the fact that 13 out of the 19 9-11 hijackers were Saudis.

Chimpy just LOVES the Saudis. He's queer for them. He has been seen numerous times hugging them, kissing them, and holding hands with them like a little schoolgirl with a crush.

And Chimpy thinks "Wahabi" is that hot green stuff you put on sushi.

And McSame will be just 4 more years of Saudi appeasement. Palin doesn't even know where Saudi Arabia is on a map or how to spell it.

Remember, Wahabism is NOT the only Islamic sect. There are millions of Moslems in the US alone who do NOT share their violent bigotry.

I can tell you who DOES share the violent bigotry of the Wahabi sect...the Religious Right "Christians" in the US. I have never met a more bigoted bunch. And the Religious Right includes the "identity church" of the far-right Nazis and Skinheads, who seek the violent overthrow of the US government and the extermination of all Jews and "brown people"

I don't want to make anybody into soap.

But some of you so-called "Christians" do.

Lisa:

Is the Islamic Saudi Academy the ONLY school/university backed by Saudi money and teaching hate and subversion in America?

saudi cashhhhhhhhhh:

Western security depends on Saudi Money not text books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

shut down saudi school in fairfax, va:

So "ELEANOR" your point is that this Saudi school in Fairfax, VA has taught up until 2008 using textbooks which encourage killing Jews, Gays, Christians and anyone else who does not believe what they believe?

Even if we assume the texts were changed in 2008 that is supposed to mean all is well? Are you kidding me?

Garak:

Anonymous wrote: "the whole notion of separation of church and state came to fruition in predominantly christian countries, and that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were ratified, individually, state by state, by citizens whose religious views do not differ markedly from the awful "christian fundamentalists' you disparage?"

No, I don't realize this because it is factually and historically incorrect. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written by intellectuals whom the religious right of their day attacked as atheists. They may have been deists, but deism is NOT Christianity. Were the Founding Fathers "Christian" in the fundamentalist sense, they would have succumbed to efforts by the religious right to put god in the Constitution.

As for the states that ratified the Constitution, only a small number of white male property owners were allowed to vote back then. This small group knew full well that the Founding Fathers rejected any notion of a "Christian" gov't. This small group was not comprised of Christian extremists. If they were, they would never have ratified the godless Constitution.

Separation of church and state is not possible in a truly "Christian" nation. A truly "Christian" nation would take the claim of Jesus that he is the only way and run with it. The Founding Fathers were fully aware of the religious nature of European governments, and how each and every one of them made only 1 religion lawful, and required adherence to that religion as a pre-condition to taking part in the political process. The deist rejection of this in the form of separation of church and state in anti-Christian.

There is a concerted disinformation program by the religious right to rewrite American history to suit their extremist, radical agenda. Its key aim to photoshop the Founding Fathers into something they weren't so as to justify dismantling the wall separating church and state. They spread lies about Washington being a devout Christian when in reality he stopped attending church for a long time. They spread lies about Jefferson exalting Christianity above all other religions and that it was the foundation of his being.

And sadly, some people actually swallow this garbage.

An: I'm not sure where we should start. Wahabbism seems the greatest threat, yet we would have no moral authority if we don't get our house in order first.

GeorgiaSon:

KATE on September 5, 2008 11:35AM replied to critical remarks about Islam in this forum by stating:

"I think these irresponsible and un-supported accusations do more to create the problem they supposedly want to combat than resolve it. Isn't our country better than this?"

Kate also praised the ISA school, its faculty and students.

Kate, had you read my remarks before you posted your comment? Because you have reinforced every point I made about how Muslims deal with criticism by simply ignoring the FACTS and going off on some meaningless rant about the glories of Islam and the base motives of any who criticize Islam. And there you go again, doing exactly that!

As others have noted, you completely ignore the FACTS that led to Ms. Shea's commentary. You make no mention of the Saudi textbook, which is what this forum is all about. You make no effort to engage others on the central issue. You abandon any semblance of rational discourse and resort to evasion and obscuratinism.

That's exactly what makes you, other so-called moderate Muslims, and the faculty and students at ISA so dangerous. You have the bifurcated, compartmented minds that are tailor-made to produce extremism and violence in the name of some cause. Particularly religion. Case in point: How was it that the German people, who gave us Beethoven, Wagner, Goethe, Thomas Mann, and great literature, great science, great medicine--could have given the world Adolph Hitler and the Nazis? Because, like you and apparently most Muslims, they had compartmented brains. One part of their brain existed in the rational world where reason and logic held sway. The other part lived in a dream-like world removed from reality, where demagoguery and emotional appeals to mystical myths from their past held sway. Hitler and the Nazis knew how to exploit that realm from which reason and logic had fled.

Does that not describe you to a "T?" You do not use the rational side of your brain to engage the FACT of the Saudi textbook. The irrational side of your brain takes over, and you rush without thought to defend what you perceive as an unnecessary attack on your founding myth--just like the Germans rallied behind the Nazis.

I say again: The FACT that even you, the students and faculty at ISA, and apparently most Muslims in America are locked into this pattern of thought and behavior makes you a clear and present danger to the American way of life.

Usama:

The Hudson Institute? A nonpartisan, nonpolitical, academic research institute?

No. A rightwing, neo-conservative, polemic imperialist 'groupthink' tank financed by ritewing imperialist minded folk.

BTW: what do Christian Evangelical and Orthodox Jewish private schools and academies teach? The same religious fundamentalist doctrine which in turn generate graduates who are the most rabid Israeli settlers who foment discord and violence and injustice in the Middle East (Israeli policies historically include supporting minority extremists groups like the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka, Hamas when PLO were popular, Kurdish PKK before Turkey established ties to Israel, and SPLA in Sudan, among other terrorist groups). Christian evangelicals enter the US military and work for contractors using their doctrinal training for warfare, espoinage, sabotage of Muslim societies.

This article doesn't show actual proof of these claims. Verbatim quotes from textbooks? References? Or just Nina Shea and the Hudson as sources? Bah.

Yellow journalism supporting disgusting WaPo neo conservative propaganda. Despicable and unsubstantiated rag.

K Ackermann:

None of this matters.

I have forseen Sarah Palin making a quick series of mistakes which culminate in the US launching first, someone else counter-launching a far greater number (I don't know who), and the US not launching a third wave, but not destroyed either. Large tracks of wilderness and farmland will remain. Most US cities are gone. American tradition will thrive, but surprisingly there will be great resistance to the notion of a United States. Dealing with the sick is an all-consuming nightmare. Engineers rule, doctors less so.

I can't see past that; I'vee been trying to see what has happened to religion in particular.

Anonymous:

yes...wahabis are dangerous. there are more than 25,000 saudi boys and girls currently studying in the us universities. all of those gus are potential terrorists.you must kick them out of the country. don't just attack saudi islam, attack saudi $$$cash$$$

Jerry Gordon:

Given the posts to Nina Shea article on Saudi Education Ministry texts espousing Wahhabi doctrine, I noted in a post the ‘environment’ at the Saudi Islamic Saudi Academy (ISA). That raises a question about why the ISA continues to have accreditation as a private school.
Here is an excerpt on that question from a New English Review article I wrote: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/22384/sec_id/22384.

ISA loses an accreditation, could one more be in Jeopardy?

The Washington Post on July 11, 2002 published an article headlined “Muslim School Withdraws From Association; Saudi-Funded Academy Loses Accreditation; Va. Agency Had Raised Questions” about the “withdrawal” of the ISA from the prestigious Virginia Association of Independent Schools. According to the Washington Post:
Sources familiar with the decision said the Virginia accrediting agency became concerned that the school was not adhering to its standards on funding and governance and asked questions earlier this year. The association’s standards require that the governing board be independent, that the administration be stable and that funding not come primarily from a single source.

Reporter Valerie Strauss further noted:
Sources said that the association’s board probably would have stripped accreditation from the school if it had not withdrawn, but that it had not met to discuss such a move.

The sources also said that some board members were concerned about aspects of the school’s curriculum. The Washington Post in January reported that some Islamic studies classes at the school use Saudi Arabian textbooks that promote hatred of other religions. However, the curricular concerns were not part of the questioning that led to the withdrawal, sources said.

It seems that the concerns about ISA hate texts and espousal of Wahhabi doctrine were in evidence back in 2002.

We have confirmed that the ISA is not on the roster of VAIS.

If you go to the ISA website it states:
ISA is fully accredited with SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) and CITA (Commission for International and Trans Regional Accreditation). The ISA achieved SACS Standards and received re-accreditation. The Academy will also adhere to the Action Plan set forth to implement the recommendations by the SACS quality assurance team.

Note that the head of SACS accreditation back in 2002 said:
…he would be concerned if the [ISA] was teaching hatred.

With the release of the USCIRF report on the hate texts used in the current school academic year, shouldn’t SACS be concerned about this evidence of ISA teaching hatred?

To answer this question, I put a call in to the Decatur, Georgia office of SACS and found that Mr. Bush had gone into ‘semi-retirement’ and was referred to the Virginia office. I posed concerns about what SACS would do in the wake of the release of the USCIRF report on the hate texts. The person who answered said that a ‘responsible officer’ would get back to me. A member of the SACS Georgia staff did return a call and confirmed that they would look into the matter.

The Washington Post article included a response by the spokesperson for the Saudi US Embassy, Nail Al-Jubeir, brother of the current Saudi Ambassador, who said, “We don’t do the day to day running of the school…..though. It is part of the royal court.”

Jerry Gordon is a contributing editor at the New English Review

Jerry Gordon:

I have written about the two decade long chronicle of citizen opposition to the Islamic Saudi Academy (ISA) in a New English Review (NER) article: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/22384/sec_id/22384. I offer the following in support of Nina Shea’s important article regarding the Saudi Ministry of Education’s revision of its Islamic Study texts for school programs in the Kingdom and used by the ISA in Fairfax County, Virginia. They are illustrative excerpts from another NER article containing comments from non-Muslim sources and former faculty at the ISA as posted by Catherine Martin: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/23796/sec_id/23796.

Following the June 17th protests, we were contacted by former ISA faculty members who consented to present views on the atmosphere that pervades the ISA.

The comments by these confidential sources reveal a pervasive attitude towards non-Muslims that reflects Saudi autocracy and Wahhabi xenophobic doctrine.

Approximately 20 % of the ISA students were children from the Saudi and other Muslim diplomatic legations in Washington, DC. The school was very much under the control of the Saudis and had Arab Muslim long term faculty who had been there since the school’s founding in the mid-1980s.

At the beginning of the school year, all of the teachers were informed that the ISA was an arm of the Saudi government.

The sources indicated that the majority of students were American Muslim children. The instructors were concerned male students would travel to the Middle East after graduation, ‘go over the edge’ and become Jihadists, just like 1999 ISA valedictorian, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, now in prison for thirty years for the attempted assassination of President Bush.

The administrators were ‘extremely arrogant’ and practiced the religiously sanctioned tradition of lying to non-Muslims (taqiyya) and enjoyed pulling the wool over the eyes of the infidels. An atmosphere of deception was at the heart of everything that they did. There was an atmosphere of exclusion and oppression.

The sources noted that the turnover for non-Muslim teachers was huge, while some non-Muslim teachers wanted to leave but stayed because they needed the job. Not only American non-Muslims but other people who were considered lower in status by the Saudi administrators, including Pakistanis, Kurds and even Shia Muslims, suffered at the school.

Another telling incident involved a non-Muslim teacher who taught second and third grade students and apparently was liked by them. One day, after the children had returned from their Muslim Studies class, when the instructor walked into the classroom, the students were talking about how they hated Christians and that they were going to kill them. The teacher overheard this and said, “I’m a Christian”. The students said that they wouldn’t kill the instructor, but would kill all the rest of Christians. The teacher who heard the students say these things resigned his position and left the school.

One last point to ponder, the sources said that it doesn't matter if the textbooks are changed because the instructors teaching the Wahhabi doctrine know it by heart and teach it year after year. Even if the textbooks were to finally have the hateful Wahhabist and Islamic supremacy language removed, it would do nothing to change those teachers who have been filling young Muslim heads with this hate-filled xenophobic doctrine.

Jerry Gordon is a contributing editor at the New English Review

Catherine Martin, ACT!For America Northern Virginia:

Please read the following article that exposes what is really happening at the Islamic Saudi Academy:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/23796/sec_id/23796

Catherine Martin, ACT!For America Northern Virginia:

Kate:
I've actually had the privlege of meeting and becoming freinds with many of the families and their children who attend ISA in Virginia. They are wonderful warm people who are extensively involved in community service, inter-faith dialogue, peace conferences, area sports, and academic competitions. Their students have a near 100% acceptance rate to colleges includeing Georgetown, Harvard, Duke, UVA, Catholic, Goerge Mason, Howard and others. 80 percent of them are American citizens. The ISA Arabic program is so respected that The United States Military sends officers from near by bases to learn Arabic there. The faculty is made up of Americans, Arabs, Irish, Italians, Canadians, Muslims, Christians, Jews.

There is reason to be interested in this school, and I've looked into it because it's in my community, and the current rhetorical attacks just don't match the reality that I've encountered first hand.
___

Kate, so wonderful you had a chance to make nice with the Saudi Academy family. Now, what you need to do is read the article in New English Review written by Jerry Gordon and Isabelle Cruz. They had the chance to interview several former teachers that had a different view as yours. Some examples: The children once made a reference to a teacher that they wanted to kill all Chritians and Jews. The maps in the school do not include Israel because "Israel does not exist." The students are being promoted even though they have failing grades. The children are being taught that we -- Americans -- are the enemy. The textbooks teach these children that Christians and Jews are "apes and pigs." Please read the article at http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/23796/sec_id/23796

Catherine Martin, ACT!For America Northern Virginia:

John Marth:
Please tell your readers how much money the United States spend per year to support Christianity and destroy Islam

Mr Marth, I do believe that as American citizens and living in a country that was founded on religious freedoms, a majority of us do not support "destroying Islam." What we do (and should) support is the destruction of militant and radical Islamists who want to destroy our democratic values, principles and freedoms.

Netgk:

Re: "You are asking for proving an infinite dimension with the finite scientific method."

Maybe you can't prove it 100%, but you could make a start. How about asking your god to give me a little demo of his infinite power? As my long-absent "father," surely he would like to convince me that he exists so we can start a relationship. I've got a paper clip on my desk in front of me. Reckon he could lift it a millimeter into the air? I say no.

Furthermore, although I can't prove that your god doesn't exist, the many contradictions in the Bible prove that it's not reliable. Since Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all founded on the Bible, its poor reliablility makes it a crumbly foundation.

Re: "Atheists pride themselves in not believing in anything they do not see or experience."

Religionists do the opposite: they boast about how much they can believe without any proof - on faith. Like that's a good thing, and they can do without logic. They criticize those who base their beliefs on reason. But imagine how much better this world would be if everyone had to prove their claims. No crazy terrorists, no belligerent Christians, no flat-earthers. Even atheists like Stalin wouldn't be able to function.

Re: The ghost web site.

I couldn't view the video for some reason. Is it still working?

An::

Garak states:
(Hatred is in the nature of all religions......Monotheists in particular subscribe to this form of mental illness.)


Well said! This kind of aberration (mistaken for development) happens when Semitic traditions of tribalism and exclusion are elevated and glorified as religion.

An::

Garak,

good comment. the question is: which one do you think we should start with?

UNBIASED OBSERVER:

Typical of what we've come to expect out of Islam. Nothing but a 1400-year old racist, fascist, totalitarian cult founded by a mass murdering pedophile. Time for the world to dump religion and superstition into the dustbin of history where it belongs.

Anonymous:

Garak:

You DO realize that the whole notion of separation of church and state came to fruition in predominantly christian countries, and that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were ratified, individually, state by state, by citizens whose religious views do not differ markedly from the awful "christian fundamentalists' you disparage? Put simply, Christianity has accepted such a separation while islam has not. There is a reason for that (not inconsequential) difference, and that difference is rooted in the words and deeds of their respective founders.

Based on your comment I do not think you have a very deep understanding of either.

Garak:

Hatred is in the nature of all religions. Any religion claiming a monopoly on Truth necessarily considers all other religions as false and as rejecting the One True god. Anyone who rejects god has no rights, no worth as a human being. Therefore, it is godly to kill them.

Monotheists in particular subscribe to this form of mental illness. Christians take this position, as do Jews. Muslims are under no obligation to be any different. "Kill them all and let god sort them out" is a Christian saying, not Muslim.

What the Saudis are doing is a real and imminent threat to civilization, not just Western. It is a grater threat than al Qaeda. Saudi wealth has allowed the Wahabis to take control of Islam and radicalize it, just as the Christian right has radicalized American Christianity. We need to overthrow the Saudi gov't, and purge America of our religious right. By any means necessary, as someone once said.

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

NETGK challenges me:

“You CAN'T prove that your god exists, even though you should be able to.”

You are asking for proving an infinite dimension with the finite scientific method. I am as believer in the scientific method as anyone else. Before the invention of television, some people used to boast that they cannot believe in anything they can’t see. You tell them there are TV electromagnetic waves and they would ask for a scientific proof, just like you did. Now no one denies the TV waves because they see their effect on their screens. I cannot exhibit God to you or any one else but I see him in my life. He is real to me whether you or anyone else is or is not lucky to experience him.
Atheists pride themselves in not believing in anything they do not see or experience. Ghosts to them is just as myth as the stories of the Christian Holy Spirit. I have an experience with a number of ghosts . I believe in ghosts. Now a number of researches at different respected universities did scientific researches on ghosts using the most sophisticated scientific instruments including voltmeters, heat sensors, magnetometers and off course videos and sound recorders. Conclusion; ghosts are a reality.
Check out the following ghosts, maybe you will learn something.
http://www.ghoststudy.com/new6/new/gettysburg13.htm

Observer:

Mohd Allam prophesizes:

“let see what’s going on in the future. I think no scholar not government can change the final destination of Europe to be Islamize.”

The Muslims tried to take Europe by force from the south through Spain but were stopped by Charles Martel in France. Again they tried to conquer it from the East and were stopped at the gates of Vienna. Now they are trying to flood it with immigrants from failed societies who proliferate like rabbits. If the Europeans are in doubt of the true intentions of those risking life and limb to get to their shores, they only have to eavesdrop on their mosques or listen to people like Allam above in his post of Sept 5. Some of their organizations openly call for the replacement of the West’s constitutions at this time when they are less than insignificant minorities. You can imagine what they will do when they are 20% or even 10% of the population.
The 15th Century Arab historian Ibn Khouldoun wrote about the Arabs that they trash every place they settle in. This seems to apply to all Muslims. Just visit some of their towns whether in North Africa, the Middle East or the East. They have different ethnicities, languages and cultures, yet all share backwardness in every facet of their lives. Let them for example dominate France and I guarantee you that within a generation it would look like Afghanistan.

Netgk:

Ibrahim/Apostate:

Re: "For someone who cannot disprove the existence of a God...."

You are correct - one cannot prove the non-existence of something. However, one can prove its existence, if it actually exists. So what are you and the other religionists waiting for? Answer: You CAN'T prove that your god exists, even though you should be able to.

ZZim:

Why is this news? This has been going on for 1200 years. It has never been different. Islam has been on the expansion-through-aggression path since day one. Ninety percent of religiously-motivated violence tody is perpetrated by Muslims. None of this is news.

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

NETGK tells me:"Some atheists hate kids, some love kids. Some are idiots, but all are smarter than you.”
How could they ALL be smarter than me when some of them think like you do , and others had killed millions of kids and I never hurt anyone? For someone who cannot disprove the existence of a God, and I know that because a lot smarter Atheists than you admitted that much, you sure spew your hypothesis with such venom as someone defending his personal honor. This is ironic since from the way you conduct your self you do not seem to have honor to defend.

Anonymous:

KATE on September 5, 2008 11:35AM replied to critical remarks about Islam in this forum by stating:

"I think these irresponsible and un-supported accusations do more to create the problem they supposedly want to combat than resolve it. Isn't our country better than this?"

Kate also praised the ISA school, its faculty and students.

Kate, had you read my remarks before you posted your comment? Because you have reinforced every point I made about how Muslims deal with criticism by simply ignoring the FACTS and going off on some meaningless rant about the glories of Islam and the base motives of any who criticize Islam. And there you go again, doing exactly that!

As others have noted, you completely ignore the FACTS that led to Ms. Shea's commentary. You make no mention of the Saudi textbook, which is what this forum is all about. You make no effort to engage others on the central issue. You abandon any semblance of rational discourse and resort to evasion and obscuratinism.

That's exactly what makes you, other so-called moderate Muslims, and the faculty and students at ISA so dangerous. You have the bifurcated, compartmented minds that are tailor-made to produce extremism and violence in the name of some cause. Particularly religion. Case in point: How was it that the German people, who gave us Beethoven, Wagner, Goethe, Thomas Mann, and great literature, great science, great medicine--could have given the world Adolph Hitler and the Nazis? Because, like you and apparently most Muslims, they had compartmented brains. One part of their brain existed in the rational world where reason and logic held sway. The other part lived in a dream-like world removed from reality, where demagoguery and emotional appeals to mystical myths from their past held sway. Hitler and the Nazis knew how to exploit that realm from which reason and logic had fled.

Does that not describe you to a "T?" You do not use the rational side of your brain to engage the FACT of the Saudi textbook. The irrational side of your brain takes over, and you rush without thought to defend what you perceive as an unnecessary attack on your founding myth--just like the Germans rallied behind the Nazis.

I say again: The FACT that even you, the students and faculty at ISA, and apparently most Muslims in America are locked into this pattern of thought and behavior makes you a clear and present danger to the American way of life.

tom:

Nina,
Excellent article. Very well done. You've obviously done a lot of research on this topic and it shows in your piece.
You should email this to Washington Post writer Emily Wax, who has consistently pumped out pro-jihadist propoganda in her articles over the past year. Emily's recent stories on Kashmir are filled with inaccuracies and a pro-terrorist bias. Last year, she wrote a piece on Darfur ("5 truths about Darfur") that actually sought to justify the genocide of Africans by Arab Muslim terrorists in Sudan. It was a stunning work of lies that radical Muslims loved. For example, the group CAIR loved that piece, which is not surprising. The Washington Post needs to print more articles by Nina Shea, not Emily Wax.
Keep up the great work.

Netgk:

Ibrahim/Apostate:

Re: "You lick the boots of Stalin, Mao and Ben Gurion who killed millions of people."

Well, naturally you're wrong again. The murders committed by these men are just as bad as those committed by Joshua. I don't defend murder. Christians do. And they worship and praise the imaginary being who supposedly ordered Joshua to slaughter babies in Jericho. "Yay, voices in Joshua's head!"

Re: "if Joshua said God ordered him to kill the Canaanites that does not necessarily mean that happened"

YES!! Now you're getting it! Come on, you can say it: "The...Bible...is...loaded...with...BS!"

Re: "The first five books of the Old Testament were written by Moses. God told him...blah... blah...blah."

You're all over the place. I'll help you out. Just cut to the chase at the end of this gastric spasm you've spewed onto the page:

Re: "Is it not IRONIC that the Zionist movement that lobbied for the return of European Jews to Palestine were mostly atheists. The first President of Israel, David Ben Gurion as well as the founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, were outspoken atheists."

You seem to think that all atheists are the same. They're not. We don't have a holy father, a holy book, or other unifying items other than the common belief that there are no gods. Some atheists are good, some are not. Some atheists hate kids, some love kids. Some are idiots, but all are smarter than you.

Re: "Those scriptures were not meant to be books of history nor of science."

I agree! They have some historical facts sprinkled in amongst a ton of BS, rendering the Bible useless, except as a great source of BS.

Tom Miller1:

This is just one more reason to push for alternative fuels in this world. What a waste of treasure for Saudi Arabia and its people. Someday when the fuel is no longer gold all they will have is this legacy of hatred, prejudice, and backwardness. God and the world will have moved on.

I can't think of any other way to describe this pitiful truth.

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

NETGK Chides me thus:
"Apparently I, a lowly atheist, care about these kids far more than you do, because I don't lick the boots of the imaginary god that ordered their slaughter."

But you do what is worse. You lick the boots of Stalin, Mao and Ben Gurion who killed millions of people. Besides if Joshua said God ordered him to kill the Canaanites that does not necessarily mean that happened; he actually butchered babies or God ordered him to do so. The first five books of the Old Testament were written by Moses. God told him to take his people to Palestine to escape the Egyptian enslavement. How they managed to settle that area depends on the choices the Israelites took. The same Israelites took over Palestine in 1948. Many of their gangs massacred lots of the indigenous people to drive them out of their lands so as to occupy it. They base their "right" to that land on the promise some of them believe God gave to Moses four thousand years earlier. Is it not IRONIC that the Zionist movement that lobbied for the return of European Jews to Palestine were mostly atheists. The first President of Israel, David Ben Gurion as well as the founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, were outspoken atheists.

When I said that the story of Joshua or the flood was history, this according to whoever reported it. Is it valid history? Those scriptures were not meant to be books of history nor of science.
Are you getting this or should I simplify it further?

Netgk:

Apostate:

Re: "Now we know you are an atheist."

Bingo. I knew you'd get it eventually. You can also call me an a-fairytale-ist. Now go cry to your mother about it, and when you come back, you can explain why it's OK to rip open the hearts of babies and children, as long as you hear voices telling you to do it, like Joshua did at Jericho. Apparently I, a lowly atheist, care about these kids far more than you do, because I don't lick the boots of the imaginary god that ordered their slaughter. You do. What a joyous life you must lead with your imaginary baby-killing god.

Re: "As for the stories of Noah and Joshua etc. this is history...."

LOL. Since when is the Noah story "history"? How silly. Your standards of proof are abyssmal. No wonder you swallowed the Bible. They can just wind you up and point you in any direction, and off you'll go, no questions asked. Has anyone told you the truth about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny? Nevermind, I don't want to shatter any more of your illusions.

Kacoo:

Boycott gasoline!

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

Kate tells me:
"There are Mosques all over this country. According to your logic, that all Muslims are essentially part of Hamas or a similar group, are you advocating exporting all Muslims? Closing all Muslim schools, Mosques, community groups?"

I have not suggested any of that, but since you brought it up let us study the matter more closely. The Saudis who are bankrolling all this Jihad against the West in general and this country in particular do not allow a nominal Christian within hundred miles of Mecca and Medina, and would imprison indefinitely anyone found with a bible in his possession. Do not even imagine building a school or a church there. Their religion teaches eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Draw your own conclusion on what should be done here.

Anonymous:

The bigotry of Americans is as unimpressive as that of Islamic bogots.

In the third blog from the top Robert uses the phrase 'the evil at the heart of Islam'.

The implication in the hateful blogs is that Americans cannot contemplate that not all Moslems are hateful. Similarly, not all Americans are hateful.

It is silly assumptions on both sides that give rise to cruelty. Both of these hateful groups need to tone down their hate and then speak to one another in order to find common ground.

Americans are very critical of others but lack a sense of introspection which is partly smothered by silly comments such as 'America is the Greatest Nation on Earth' and 'I am a patriotic American'.

America has caused more trauma and deaths in the world than Moslems. Just look at your history since WWII. If you do not know what I am talking about then you should consider how the USA sponsored Saddam's attacks on Iran, and how the CIA destabilised governments in South America. This destabilisation resulted in cruel regimes formimg governments and they treated their populations cruelly. Oh yes, don't forget Vietnam. The US poured more bombs onto Vietnam than were dropped in Europe during WWII. The effects of Agent ORange are long lasting.

As I said above, America should be introspective because it is a good hater (just like the Saudis).

If Americans proceed to treat all Moslems as evil and aall Americans as good then they are silly and the results from silly minds will continue to cause more strife in this world.

Apostate:

NETGK comments on my remark that the Old Testament was valid during the age of the Mosaic Law while the New Testament is the Age of Grace."

"Therefore, you are saying that the Old Testament is no longer valid. Cool! That negates the Ten Commandments, the creation story, Noah's Ark,…”

No! That does not negate the Ten Commandments. It replaced them with a more thorough interpretation. Like “Do not commit adultery” was replaced by “He who looks at a woman and desires her is as good as having committed adultery.” As for the stories of Noah and Joshua etc. this is history and how can you negate history?
Now we know you are an atheist and you want us to believe you are shedding tears over the children of Canaanite Jericho of 4000 years ago. Should you not instead be shedding tears over the twenty million people that your prophet Stalin had massacred a mere fifty years ago?

Omar:

Anonymous:

Perhaps your confidence stems from some manner of "interfaith outreach" such as the one featured about 8 minutes into the following video? If so, you might be interested in learning what they said after you left. . . .:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIYkLWY4Fc&feature=related

(The above series, "Undercover Mosque: The Return," is basically a "check up" on the conduct of a number of offending mosques identified in the original series, simply entitled "Dispatches Undercover Mosque" available in 6 parts on youtube. You may also be interested in learning that the police in the district in which the undercover footage was recorded actually attempted to have, not the imama's, mind you, but the PRODUCERS prosecuted for damaging "social cohesion.")

For additional information, you may want to look at a couple of Timesonline articles:

"Hardline Takeover of British Mosques" by Andrew Norfolk, reporting that nearly one half of british mosques are currently affiliated with the salafist deobandi school of thought (the delightful bunch that brought us the Taliban); and "Our Followers Must Live in Peace Until Strong Enough to Wage Jihad" by Andrew Norfolk, reporting on the instructions given to these deobandi mosques by one of their premier scholars.

Rory:

I am glad to see people paying more attention to the dissemination of hatred overtly funded by the Saudi Arabian government. It has taken root across America, but nowhere more virulently than in Northern Virginia where I happen to live (people near Dearborn, MI, might beg to differ). The local Wahhabi mosques and schools are stunningly intolerant; imams are routinely expelled from the country for harboring terrorist ties, two of the 9/11 hijackers were local worshippers, and the academy's valedictorian is now serving a 20+ year sentence for plotting to assassinate our President.

This article touches on, but does not fully explore, one of the root causes of this: the 1979 fanatic attacks in Mecca. Unable to dislodge militants from a key mosque (militants in a mosque? Where were the odds?!) the Saudis were forced to rely on French (!) paratroopers to expel the militants. They then struck a tacit agreement with Islamic terrorists: we will leave you alone in our country just so long as you don't overturn the royal family. In exchange, we will fund your sadistic brand of murderous "religion" all around the globe, using the magical money juice that literally flows out of the ground around here.

What we see today is the end result of that cruel process: a rampant spread of Islamic repression and violence, even against countries that had ZERO relationship with any of the various grievances Muslims often use to rationalize their violence (like all those Thai Crusades, or that time the Phillippines invaded Iraq). At the same time, Saudi Arabia is largely responsible for all of Islam and Muslims being smeared with the mindless, uneducated, sickening brutality that has come to characterize repressive 7th century Islam under the Saudis. If you really want to combat "Islamaphobia" the first thing you should do is tell Saudi Arabia to shut up and stop making Wahhabis kill everybody.

Robert:

Wow. Finally a single piece in 'On Faith' that starts to hint at the evil at the heart of Islam.

Realist:

Anonymous (Kate?) wrote at 2:53: Who told you that the texts at ISA say to kill homosexuals? Even in the claims that I've seen, I haven't heard that one before. Which is not to say someone else hasn't already said it. I just haven't seen it.

This was a direct quote from the Nina Shea article which is the anchor for this discussion thread. See the second paragraph, the one beginning '[t]hese textbooks assert that it is permissible for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," those practicing "major polytheism," and homosexuals.'

And since Sharia countries regularly execute homosexuals for the mere crime of being homosexual, the textbook claim is wholly believable.

It's not up to me to prove that the the texts say; it's up to ISA, and their apologists, to disprove WaPo's assertion.

Anonymous:

Realist:
I agree. It's about the facts. But what are the facts that you offer? You say:

"This is about the hate-filled textbooks, Kate. Textbooks that say it is permissible for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," those practicing "major polytheism," and homosexuals.

Say it with me Kate: OK to kill homosexuals."

Who told you that the texts at ISA say to kill homosexuals? Even in the claims that I've seen, I haven't heard that one before. Which is not to say someone else hasn't already said it. I just haven't seen it.

If you haven't read the texts, why do you think they say that? Who told you that? My point was that I don't know what the books say, but I know how these children fit into the community and what their goals are. I wasn't trying to convince you that the books say or don't say anything. That's why I said, they've been reviewed by some board. The point is I don't know who or how credible. So the claims on either side that the books do or don't have certain words or phrases in them, is not something I will currently rely on to make my assessment of the school.

(And good for you for managing to sound so condescending and agressive in type. If you are so sure you are right, fight with arguments, not retorical tactics like typing my name over and over. Picking up on your style: Say it with me "realist": We're having a discussion, sharing opinions, points of view. That's one of our rights in this country, to have different points of view. If you want to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you, you are niether serving the good of your country or living by its founding princpiples.)

Ali Khan:

It is not possible for a Muslim to practise his religion, Islam (aka Submission) perfectly in Western/Hindu/Buddhist Society.

They will always be offended by women walking unaccompanied by a guardian male with bare midriffs. They will also be offended by pubs/bars serving alcohol. Also eateries serving pork, shellfish, etc.

So it is better if all the Muslims migrate to Islamic countries where they can enjoy a perfect sharia-compliant life and ensure their souls will be received into the paradise promised by Allah.

(Since they are incompetent at managing their technical economies, we shall supply them with najis workers to run their economies so long as they let us buy their oil at a reasonable price - or we sell them no food and let them starve!)

September 4, 2008 8:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments

I think you are not being realistic. Muslims need to go to the west to convert white people to Islam. If things go according to plan, England and France will be Islamic countries by 2030.

Anonymous:

Apostate:

Jasir defines :

“7. Islam means peace”.
I have endured all the hogwash that this person had spewed, but suddenly I could not take it any more. He, like many of Muslim missionaries and apologists, has such a disrespect for the readers knowledge and intelligence that he goes so far as to define the word Islam as PEACE. Islam means submission and how is that peace ? Unless it implies that that Muslims will declare a truce only after the whole world adopts their ideology. Since the world is not about to do such a thing this attitude guarantees perpetual wars and not peace. Besides we are not idiots. We see every day the “peaceful” actions and threats of your coreligionists. Maybe you can sell such propaganda to the Afghanis and the Somalis but not here.

September 5, 2008 12:08 PM | Report Offensive Comments

I guess people just have to read the news to see muslims killing infidels or muslims killing muslims.

However, as long as muslims are taught to have, as these textbooks have shown, you cannot expect muslims to change.

Anonymous:

It is rather sad to see that all muslims are taught to hate. Maybe that is why at least 8 of the 10 failed states in the world are muslim majority countries.

Realist:

Kate aka Anonymous,

Regarding you 12:31 PM post.

You wrote: The thing is, I haven't read the textbooks and neither have you.

Er, how do you know what I have or have not read? Hugely presumptuous of you. I've made no claims that I have read the controversial textbooks used by ISA. And whether I have or have not read them is not the point.

The point is that you and other apologists for ISA don't want to discuss the textbooks, and change the subject at every opportunity.

You wrote: They have been read by a board of some sort in Alexandria county or semething and been determined as fine.

This is not a confidence-inspiring statement. "[O]r something", indeed. The fact that Alexandria is an independent city, and not part of any county, further undermines your already marginial credibility.

This is about facts Kate, not your feelings about your friends at ISA.

This is about the hate-filled textbooks, Kate. Textbooks that say it is permissible for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," those practicing "major polytheism," and homosexuals.

Say it with me Kate: OK to kill homosexuals.

You can't defend this, yet you know it's there. Your only option is to keep changing the subject, and that's not working.

Done debating you since you're not a rational actor.

halozcel:

Iftikhar Ahmed,

Civilization will not adapt to muslims,but muslims shall adapt to Civilization.

Civilization will not go back to Medieval Ages,but those who living in Medieval Ages(even in stone age) shall come to twentyfirst century.

By the way,islam means *submission*.Yes,you shall uncoditional submit to Desert Rules.

Netgk:

Apostate:

Re: "The Old Testament was valid during the age of the Mosaic Law. The New Testament is the Age of Grace."

Therefore, you are saying that the Old Testament is no longer valid. Cool! That negates the Ten Commandments, the creation story, Noah's Ark, and all those other fairy tales.

Re: "If a massacre was carried out in Jericho does necessarily mean God approved of it."

Tear yourself away from your mirror for a few minutes and read your Bible. It says that Joshua was ordered by your God to kill everyone in Jericho. Of course, the Bible is loaded with BS, so I wouldn't blame you for disbelieving it.

Re: "If He had, though, in Deir Yassin or Jericho, He would be no different than the Allah of your cult."

Naturally, you are completely incorrect. I'm not a muslim. I view Islam in the same light as Christianity. They're both fairy tales.

Anonymous:

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

I'm actually not part of any of the above groups. I'm Catholic. I'm also an American and beleive that all citizens are protected by the constitution and have the right to a speedy trial, a jury of their peers, and are innocent until proven guilty.

There are Mosques all over this country. According to your logic, that all Muslims are esentially part of Hamas or a similar group, are you advocating exporting all Muslims? Closing all Muslim schools, Mosques, community groups?

Do you *really* think that all Muslims are equivilent to members of Hamas and that they are infiltrating our country to destroy it? I just find it hard to believe that you really think that. I find that people like to make broad condemnations and feel rightous about their ability to condemn large unknown groups of people.

I just don't quite understand what you really believe, because your statements imply an extremely radical, intolerant, and agressive stance on the subject of Muslims in this country based on narrow evidence, stereotypes, and mass generalizations, and a general prejudice against the entirety of an individual religion that I don't think you really know very much about.

You also don't address some of the hate language in the Bible, the extremes of groups that call themselves Christian in this country.
Kate

Observer:

Iftikhar complains:

"Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture."

Until Muslims in the West stop denigrating the host cultures and ideologies with words, modes of dress and deeds and start behaving like they belong here they are going to be regarded as an alien people. The open incitement of your leaders for the replacement of our constitutions with your Sharia laws plus the terrorist conspiracies against us that are uncovered almost daily, and never even condemned by any of you, do not necessarily endear you to us.

halozcel:

Kate,

Yes,you are right.
Jihad means *efford/struggle/kampf in german*

*My Jihad* means *meine kampf*.Ja,naturlich.

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

KAT tells me:
“Is your argument based on one website's claims? There are many self designated "Christian" groups who have adopted a neo-Natzi platform and have websites, demonstrations, published propaganda, etc”

Here is the familiar type of defense that Muslims, like the above one, is employing; offense , even if that offense ridiculously misses the mark.
What you refer to as a “website claim” is part of the constitution of the Muslim Brotherhood. This organization is not a fringe group but the mother of Hamas, Hizbulla, CAIR, OIC, ISNA, MCB, ICNA, MPC UAMA, AMILA OICC .AMF IGS. Which one do you belong to?

Anonymous:

Realist:

The thing is, I haven't read the textbooks and neither have you. They have been read by a board of some sort in Alexandria county or semething and been determined as fine.They have also been sent to the State department--early last fall, I believe-- for their review.

The students and parents have told me that the textbooks do not preach, teach, or promote hate. That one of the arguments was that the textbooks said that in Islamic countries, people of all faiths and beliefs are protected. The complaint, as I understand it, was that, text didn't explicitly state that people of all faiths are protected outside Islamic countries. So, if this is true, the complaint is about what is omitted, not what is stated, which is that Islam is tolerant of and protects people of all faiths. There may be other examples; again I haven't read the books and niether have you. (Doesn't it say in the old Testiment to stone gay people to death, and explain how to treat your slaves -- implying that slavery is part of a biblically determined life -- no one is closing Catholic schools because they teach the bible because we know that these things are, for the most part, I hope and imagine, not actually taught).

I didn't quote the students and parents and even "experts" who have evaluated the texts, because, also being a realist, what people say and what they do, doesn't always match. So I think it really is about who these students are, what their values are, what the school's values are, what the school's position in and contribution to its community is. I put more stock in what these students are being taught as evidenced by their actions and the reality of what I see with my own eyes, and not what people like you and I, who have not read these textbooks, say is or isn't in them.
Kate

oberle:

gary sez::
oberle wrote: Can the school in Northern Virginia be closed down because of these textbooks?

^---Moderate tolerant schools like those are the buffer that keeps the violent extremists from bombing our skyscrapers. Your ignorance borders on treason, son. Don't mess up my country.


Don't mess with your country? Well, why don't you go back there so you don't have to read or listen to people who thankfully are able to practice free speech. You obviously don't want the light to shine on your religion.

Apostate:

Jasir defines :

“7. Islam means peace”.
I have endured all the hogwash that this person had spewed, but suddenly I could not take it any more. He, like many of Muslim missionaries and apologists, has such a disrespect for the readers knowledge and intelligence that he goes so far as to define the word Islam as PEACE. Islam means submission and how is that peace ? Unless it implies that that Muslims will declare a truce only after the whole world adopts their ideology. Since the world is not about to do such a thing this attitude guarantees perpetual wars and not peace. Besides we are not idiots. We see every day the “peaceful” actions and threats of your coreligionists. Maybe you can sell such propaganda to the Afghanis and the Somalis but not here.

oberle:

Iftikhar Ahmad sez:

Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

Well, if they're so miserable, why don't they go back to their Muslim countries? Why should western civilizations bend over backward for these people?

Realist:

Kate,

This isn't about how nice you find the students and staff of ISA to be, nor is it about the college acceptance rate of ISA students. Nor is this about how good the arabic language program at ISA is, or anything else you mention.

This is about hate-filled textbooks, which you somehow chose not to mention.


Kate:

Ibrahim Mahfou,

Is your argument based on one website's claims? There are many self designated "Christian" groups who have adopted a neo-Natzi platform and have websites, demonstrations, published propaganda, etc. I think it would be uninformed and dangerous to use one of these groups, website, or publications to label all Christians as slowly advancing a first neo-conservative, then a neo-Natzi agenda. Because some Christian groups state that homosexuality is a sin against God an abbhoratin of human nature, or that only white skinned people should be allowed to live, etc., should we shut down all Catholic and Christian organizations because the hate and intolerance they are teaching their children?

Jihad in Arabic means "effort." It can refer to personal goals, "My Jihad is to become abetter mother, student, husband. To lose weight, to learn French." The word has been distorted and redefined by radical Islam, but in mainstream Islam, it may be used, but with an entirely different meaning.

The conservatives speak of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps." That may be the "effort" or "Jihad" of many people's lives.

Ibrahim Mahfouz:

If what is meant by a moderate Muslim that he does not believe in Jihad or terrorism in the name of his religion, then the term “Moderate Muslim” is an oxymoron. Those who do not believe in terrorizing the Unbelievers till they adopt the “Religion of Allah“are by definition not Muslims. The difference between the so-called “moderate and “extremist“ Muslim is that the former advocates patience until the Muslim forces are strong enough to carry the Jihad, while the latter calls for immediate Jihad. The Muslim organization working openly in the USA such as CAIR or ISNA define themselves as moderates, yet they never rule out Jihad, as you can see in their “constitution” cited below.

The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who choose to slack.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/DN-dreher_09edi.ART.State.Edition1.4235f88.html

Iftikhar Ahmad:

Muslim Youths

Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off. There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools.

The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60.

Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim
culture--the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.
Iftikhar Ahmad
wwwlondonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Kate:

I've actually had the privlege of meeting and becoming freinds with many of the families and their children who attend ISA in Virginia. They are wonderful warm people who are extensively involved in community service, inter-faith dialogue, peace conferences, area sports, and academic competitions. Their students have a near 100% acceptance rate to colleges includeing Georgetown, Harvard, Duke, UVA, Catholic, Goerge Mason, Howard and others. 80 percent of them are American citizens. The ISA Arabic program is so respected that The United States Military sends officers from near by bases to learn Arabic there. The faculty is made up of Americans, Arabs, Irish, Italians, Canadians, Muslims, Christians, Jews.

There is reason to be interested in this school, and I've looked into it because it's in my community, and the current rhetorical attacks just don't match the reality that I've encountered first hand.

From everything I've seen, they're just regular kids who do regular stuff and want to go to school, get married, get a good job and have a nice family.

It seems to me that a school so well integrated into its community and the American educational system should be praised and supported. The best defence against radical Islam, which they are not, is happy, genuine adherents to the peaceful and community-oriented religion of Islam (In Islam, the Quran, the Torah and the Bible are considered the three holy texts, and while Jesus is not viewed as the son of God, he is considered a religious profet. The more we attack peole who are doing everything right according to, by any measure, conservative American values -- they don't drink or do drugs, they believe that it's everyone's responsability to support anyone in their community who needs help, they believe in teh role of faith based organizations in community service, they belive in abstinance until marriage, and they belive that aducation and hard work will reward you with financial security and a comfortable happy life--the more we attack people who promote traditional values, the more we contradict their gauranteed constitutaional rights as American citizens to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and freedom of speech and religion. And in doing so, aren't we moving toward the kind of radical intolerance we're accusing these kids of, who differ little from students at any Hebrew, Catholic, Jesuit or other values based educational institution?

I think these irresponsible and un-supported accusations do more to create the problem they supposedly want to combat than resolve it.

Isn't our country better than this?

Realist:


Eleanor Doumato,

Get over yourself.

The question I asked should be judged on the merits of the question alone, not my online handle or gender. Did you really mean to go there?

Sure, you post here with a name that sounds like the name of a real person, but there is no way for anyone to verify that you are named Eleanor Doumato -- not that it matters, remember "merits of the question."

You seem to feel that you can invalidate Shea's article by simply saying that her facts were outdated. That's either a great bluff or incredibly naive on your part.

You wrote: Second, why should the school have "publicly announced" its introduction of a revised curriculum?

Their choice whether to do this -- or not, but failing to make such an announcement leaves no way for people to verify what they're doing, or to hold them to their statement.

It's also totally understandable that ISA wouldn't go out of their way to raise this issue again in the popular press. Sure that they want this issue to go away, as do their apologists. Ain't happening.

For most people, an unverifiable statement of fact contradicting a statement published in a respectable media outlet, such as you made and are asking us to believe, isn't very convincing.

You wrote: Third, when Ms. Shea wrote her article is irrelevant.

Wrong. Shea can only be responsible for the facts that existed at the time she submitted her article. Yes, WaPo should have done fact-checking before publishing the article if they held the article for more than a few days before publishing it.

When asking you for verification I also invited Fairweather and Shea to weigh in on when the article was written. This assumed good faith on the part of all parties -- behavior which you would do well to emulate.

Georgiason:

The comments posted by Muslims in this blog are unbelievable as rational discourse. Ms. Shea posted a commentary based on the simple fact that Saudi textbooks teach the extremist, jihad-loving doctrines that provide the ideological foundation of Islamic extremism and terrorism worldwide. Do Muslims react in horror to this FACT and resolve to do something about it?

On the contrary, out come the whole panoply of Muslim arguments that, at best, tell us why we should tolerate those textbooks, and--at worst--legitimize and rationalize those extremist teachings. We are treated, once more, to the standard Muslim tactics used by so-called moderate Muslims to try to get around these unpleasant FACTS about Islam. Up front is the deliberate obscuratinism. Hundreds and hundreds of words, paragraph after paragraph, are devoted to quoting Koranic verses and Islamic scholars and citing alleged acts of compassion by Mohhamad, in the apparent belief that the truth can be hidden beneath all this rubbish. Then there is the other standard tactic: claim that Muslims, whatever their sins, are really no worse than Christians, Jews, and Americans. Cite acts that happened hundreds and even thousands of years ago to prove your case.

By using these transparent tactics, "moderate" Muslims accomplish the opposite of what they intended. They validate the original charge, by showing they have no valid argument to refute it. They shoot themselves in the foot.

The truth will not go away. Muslim schools worldwide, including those in the United States, use Saudi textbooks that preach an extremist, hate-mongering version of Islam.

On this FACT alone, I repeat my first-step solution: limit the number of Muslims that reside in the United States at any one time.

Note: This is Recycled Material from WAPO 'onfaith' aka onreligion blogg :

Hello {World}: Either Vote for: Legislate from the Jesus's-Pulpit (STATiC Theocracy ) or the Seculars-Bench (DYNAMiC Beuracracy)?
--
Hello {World} either Vote for Legislate from the Jesus Pulpit or the Bench?

--
Before "i" Begin & 'drop a Bomb' on the McCain's of Worms,

And also Something ON them Many Many FREUDiANT Slips of Genuine Prophecy's from yestarday RNC:

ASk Citizen McCain: How Many People did ye Napalm John??? Do ye want to see Pictures of your Victim(s) Mr. Wannabe Prez, Citizen McCain?? Well

Here is your Aero-Plane & your child Victims Live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev2dEqrN4i0

S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C U M M! There is nothing to Boast nor Proud about!!


Fact: HiSTORY is O.U.R. JURY & EVERYBODY's Biz!" John McCAiN is a looser!

ViETNAM was & is a LOOSiNG WAr! WE Lost It U.S.! Do not be in denial to selves or others America!
Question: Where is BiN LADEN & His Lamps, Mr. Citizen CAiN/BUSH Evangelicals??

-- AMAZiNG () No Grace!

Hello CONSCientious Objector(s), aka PEACE LOVERS, not WAR MONGERS!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

Wow: "i" as a Diplomatic Historian lover, am awrae, not most, that "To Tell a BiG Lie" , during a campaign , and HOPE? the-People will buy/bite it, is one sneakarooish Weapon that them "Thomas's Promis's" candidates (Satans dressed in Secular Garb & work undercover in a Secular Government as Employees) like self Agrandizing McCain's , et al, want ye to Believe!

Note: As a victim ( whom germany's Catholic HiTLER & Georgian (russias Enemy now) Catholic STALiN Mass murdered "i" Kin) AND , as a Young Lad , attending MiLiTARY HiGH SCHOOL ("i" was a Cub & Boy Scout too) , That

"i" hath suddenly Became a Passionate CONSCiENTiOUS OBJECTOR meself. And Yes, "i" attended thee WOOD STOCK. Yes, "i" still step on cackaroaches when need too, So does that make me a Commy, Anti-American, Anti-Jezues , anti-Establishment, anti-Feds, ant-LiFE or Nature etc..???

Ps: Besides cunning SARA Palin sounding "ANTi-U.S. SUPREME COURT..., that madam Cindy McCain, last night Sounded very "LIBERTARiAN" when saying , "Let's Keep the Federal Government out of Ye Lives" [similar slipped]. What a FLOOZY!

Fact: important note: Cindy McCains Family Owe a Alchol & Beverage Spirits (not godly stuff) Business. They Hath Many HiGHWAy DEATHS on Their Hands. And Most are Teenagers or Young Adults! They are EViL Pushers whom sell to the 'Others' but do not consume such themselves!

---

interesting observation: According to the 2 most important Judeo-JU's, At last nights RNC , "i" noticed & observed the Presence "Henry Kissenger" (The Israeli Arch Evangelical loving Armageddon Lobbyist,who should've retired, but is a Republican Vintriloquist.

Note: He also sat next to Bush @ the Biejing Olympics) and the 'Turn-Coat" Wannabe political addicted & desperate brown nose "LiEBERMAN" (the Israeli Arch Lobbyist & also Evilgelical Armageddon Lover og John HAGEE et al) ; is Proof, that "the JEWiSH LOBBY", not ZiONiST LoBBY, controls All those, Rabbi Jesus Loving U.S. Governors , whom spoke evily at the RNC.

Ps: They , Sour Sour Americans(?) want to Provoke & Spin a WAR with Sweet Sweet RUSSia! Note: These so called "Judeo-JU's, forgot that Russia Saved 'MOST' of Them who are living Today. And so, ISRAEL should Pay RUSSia Back Every Penny that that Russia, not America, invested to House them, Educate them, Feed Them, Employ Them (Socialism or Not).

And it was Judeo-Catholic POLANDers who Ratted-out & turned-in them Judeo-Ju's!. Fact: They did that to "i" grand Parents!
---


Last night (at the RNC) and after the End of McCain's Speech, that on Chanel PBS-13, someone left the MIcrophone open & ye can hear someone, on Stage, invoking , that 'imported' JUDEO-JU made into a Judeo-Christ, Rabbi "JEZEUS"s Name to help Win the McCain & Palin Ticket!?? Wow! What Dangerous PRE-APOCALYPTARiAN's (Anti-SECULARist) Nationals indeed!

Note: Besides Wanabe Tom RiGE, an Evangelical Jesusus Lover too, that unfortunately The U.S. HOME-LAND-SECURiTY Dept. is Run by them Evangelicals. And anyone 'outside' of their 'Tax-Exempt' Organization (as if be a genuine institution) will be Targetted via George Nixon/Reagan/BUSH(s) EXECUTiVE ORDER #12333.

Please see: http://www .michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=12003 an unamerican Pretext to spy on non Evangelical-Nationals.

iMPORTANT: The SOUTH's secret-Mascot is Revi & god Player (Imported icon & not our G-D or fella) Mr. Rabbi JEZEUS Yashua Christo is in fact Anti-Family & Anti-Humanity & Anti-Nature & Anti-Business & a Jealous-person (zero god), is a Evil person:

If Ye not Beliveth "i" then Pleasea America, see Any-Imported Bible @ LUKE:14:26 & @ LUKE:12:51 et seq. And also that imported (not Made in America) most Evil Story ever Told; the "DRUNKiN [Racist] Noah Story, et seq. Note: Suddenly an import is being Exported & re-Bottled as id U.S.A. Made! SCHAME Pre-Apocalyptic thinking Evangelical-NATiONalis!

And For This Reason, the EVANGELiCAl (mostly Southerners & red necks) WHITE GANG {whom Own, by Satans Tricks, Usuray & theivery, like the Nepotistic BUSH's , 75% of all the Wealth here & many stakes & prongs abroad via U.S. Tax Payers Dollar Addiction } are Jealous of the NORTHERNERS. (the Real Mixed & Assimilated Americans/Inheritors, not Southern/Red-Neck middle class & higher TRASH!!

Please knowth that ARMAGEDDON Lover & Religio Jealous Psychotic & Situational-Lyer" ,Satans Puppet, and wannbe cunning Prez, John McCAiN, is a PANAMANian-Citizen, not born in America!

JOHN McCAiN is un-American! Why? Because my 'FRiEND' Citizen McCain became a Prisoner, while on a MASS MURDEREiNG Bombing Run instruction from his own Father [hence why his dad was a misserable AlcoHolic {too many night mares to escape} , but not biblioholic like his john Jr today], knowingly & heartlessly happily went to mass kill CIViLiANS too via his Own Choice.

Note an Important Freudian Slip as FACT: Citizen McCain a Worms, "SiTUATiONALY LiED" about 2-two things:

1) That "I Drew a 'Four-Way-Totem-Pole' , aka CROSS, on the Sand" story, is a illusional & Dillusional exagerated as his Biblio Psychotic Storys. Note: John knoweth that Dead-Men do not talketh And

2) That "I was Tortured & SOLiTARY CONFiNEment false Story , is another one of His (their) vintriloquized Storys!

Ps: "i" hath Document, from ex-Vietcong 'Correction-Officers' , who interfaced with Citizen McCain, whom saith that under the GENEVA CONVENTiON, on handling War Prisoners, was honored to the 'T'! that 'No Table, No... is a Crock of 1/2 Truths! aka Tantamounbt to a Outright LIE! Wow! It's worse that when HiLLAry CLiNTON exagerated that 'Sniper Story'!

ASk Citizen McCain: How Many People did ye Napalm John??? Do ye want to see Pictures of your Victim(s) Mr. Wannabe Prez, Citizen McCain?? Well ????


S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C H A M E! S C U M M!

There is nothing to Boast nor to be Proud about, Mr. citizen , of Panamanian, McCain & followers to HELLLLLL, if there is such a pertgatory state!

Note: Atleast 'Barry' OBAMA was born in Awaii!

---

Trivia: Did Ye Knowth That ALASKA is on [stolen?] "RUSSiAN-Land"?

Pleazzze Evangelical AMERiCA, ye must Sell Back ,Alaska, to Russia for Violation of the "CZARiST NICHOLAS DOCTRiNE", aka the "GORBACHEV DOCTRiNE" for Violating the Terms of the 'ALASKA PURCHASE" of 1867.

iMagine Violating Americas own so called "MONROE DOCTRiNE!??

iNCAMERA(secret),


And Did Ye Knowth, that Governor "SARA" (Biblicaly speaking, is Abraham's Sister & wife as the character who is in fact a PROSTiTUTE, hence mother of Harlots) PALiN's Great Grand Parents , via IDAHO & the Plains, hath "Mass Murdered" [HOLOCAUSTED] AMERiCAn NATiVE Indians in the early & mid 1800's? Interesting: 'SARA" Palins two(2) 'WiKEPEDiA" sites [135kb & 276kb] Does Not Mention her PARENTS nor Grand Parents Mass Murdering Anscestory!??????? And

Did Ye Knowth, Today Genuine , NATiVE, KLONDiKEers, aka ALASKANS abORiGiNALs(not Europeans, not Afrikans etc..) are quietly treated as 2nd rate Citizenz (limited in 'White-Man's" Evilgelical Government)!??? Ever See how 'Fat' & alcholically troubled they (abORiGiNY's) are, as a Group?? They (Native Americans Arizonians etc..) are biggest customers for John McCain & cindy's Brewery's!

Note again: John McCains Wife Cindy is a forgetfull Floozy. aka idiot sevant!

Amazing () No Grace!

---


PROPHECY: It is Not 2nd woman as VP Sara PALiN(s) time to be a vPrez! Nor is it destiny for wannabe General John McCains time to be Prez! Not even Next Time in 2013+. Instead:

VOTE HiLLARY CLiNTON for Prez & Col. Besevitch for Vprez 2012!

Note: When Brethren OBAMA & BiDEN's become Prez's, that the EXPERiENCED Ex Prez Clintons, ex Vp Gores, Ex prez Carters , Darling kennedy's etcc., will guide them. So Fear not America, Ye are still in Good Hands!

Note: Big Mouth , ex Prosecutor & Word Merchant Psych, accident Mayor Rudolph Giuliani [an anti-EC{LATARiAN}], himself did not have any-EXPERiENCE when he naively took office.So Who did He (Rudy tooty fruity boy) Rely On on governing? Yes, Ex Mayors, Ex Governers Politico's Honcho's etc..! Wow! White Calling Kettle Black!??

Wow, Like Citizen McCain, Citizen Giuliani is attempting to Capitalize on WAR, that They Provoked (Republican MAFiOS'os of America & their Partners in Crime, the U.S. Evilgelical Churche's Leaders; Worse than COMMUNiSTS!).

Question: is there something , in the ANALYSES, above , aka FREUDiAN SLiPS of Genuine Prophecies", that Ye hath not Understanded!???

Amazing () No GRACE!

---

Paid For by the "EC{LAT}ARiAN" NATiONALiS on Space-Ship Earth & Jointly ajoined with the "JO{KTAN}-iOn-PARTY, U.S.A. for GRiDARiAN-DEMOCRACY & TRANSFiNiTE CiViLiZATiON, HEALiNG OF NATiON(s), GLOBAL-PEACE & more 2013+.

Jasir:

Islam Vs Terrorism

The word "Islam" is closely related to the word "salam or silm" which means peace. Muhammad, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, himself had a very peaceful nature, was extremely tolerant, and highly protective of the non-Muslim minorities living in the Muslim state.

However, there are times when states find war inevitable, but Islam only permits war in specific and dire circumstances. It keeps warfare at a level of mercy and respect for the enemy that no other army has been able to reach. The Prophet sometimes had to fight for the mere survival of his people and message, but once their security was ensured, he immediately reverted to peace and diplomacy.

There is a rigid code Muslims must abide by in deciding when they can fight and how the fighting should be conducted. War itself is despised, and is only a last-resort option when all other attempts at peace have been made.

A Muslim is never allowed to initiate hostilities. "And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but transgress not the limits. Surely, Allah likes not the transgressors." [2: 190].

The only times in which believers are allowed to take up arms are when they are defending their own lives and the lives of their people, when they see the weak being oppressed in acts of tyranny, and when they are prohibited from practicing their religion:

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers." [2: 191].

"They question thee (O Muhammad) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great (transgression), but to turn (men) from the way of Allah, and to disbelieve in Him and in the Inviolable Place of Worship, and to expel His people thence, is a greater with Allah; for persecution is worse than killing. And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can. And whoso be cometh a renegade and dieth in his disbelief: such are they whose works have fallen both in the world and the Hereafter, Such are rightful owners of the Fire: they will abide therein," [2:217].

Aside from these circumstances, there is no legitimate fighting in Islam.

The conditions placed upon the soldier in battle are of utmost respect for the enemy and for human life. Islam makes a clear distinction between combatants and noncombatants, forbidding soldiers to harm defenseless civilian in any way. The Prophet said: "Do not kill the women, children, aged or the ill." He also prohibited Muslims from harming monks in their monasteries or hermits in their caves. Cutting down trees, destroying livestock, wells, homes or land of the enemy is likewise forbidden. Upon seeing the corpse of a woman in a battlefield, Prophet Muhammad asked his companions why she had been killed, and condemned it.

There is no excuse for any expedition or attack resulting in the killing of civilians, no one has the right to take innocent lives.

For those enemies active in combat and those taken prisoner of war, the list of rights is lengthy. There is no torture, no killing of the wounded or defenseless, and the return of corpses to the enemy is honored. There is no mutilation of the enemy bodies. Even after Hind bint Utbah, a powerful lady of Makkah, chewed the liver of the Prophet's uncle, Hamzah, after he was killed in a battle between Muhammad and her non-Muslim people, Muhammad still forbade his men from disrespecting a creation of God in such a way

The Prophet commanded the believers to treat the prisoners of war with kindness. One prisoner by the name of Abu Aziz told how surprised he was to see the Muslims giving the better part of their meal-the bread-to the prisoners while they themselves just had dates. "Not a crumb of bread would fall into their hands without them giving it to me," he narrated, "and I would be so embarrassed that I would reject it. But then they would return it back to me."

The Qur'an lays down strict guidelines for the declaration of war by a Muslim army, and Muslims are prohibited from breaching any treaty to which they have agreed.
"If you fear treachery from any people throw back (their covenant) to them (so as to be) on equal terms (that there will be no more covenant between you and them), Certainly Allah likes not the treacherous. [8:58].

The extent of the Prophet's mercy can be seen in the Muslim conquest of Makkah, which happened towards the end of his life. The Makkan tribe of Quraish had blatantly violated the significant "Treaty of Hudaybiyya" by supplying men and arms in an effort to attack a Muslim-allied tribe. They had slaughtered ruthlessly, even killing inside the Holy Sanctuary, and knew they could expect retaliation for such a weighty crime.

Muhammad, upon learning of the raid, set out for Makkah at the head of a colossal army of 10,000 men. Everyone
wondered how he would conduct this expedition; if he wanted revenge for all the mockery, persecution, and murders of his companions, now was certainly the time. His forces humiliatingly outnumbered his enemies.

When the army reached the outskirts of Makkah, they came upon the chief of Quraish, the archenemy of Islam, Abu Sufvan. Several Muslims were furious and wished to see him dead, but the noble Prophet received him. Muhammad
asked his uncle, Abbas, to take Abu Sufyan ahead to a high gorge-giving him a full view of the Muslim army approaching Makkah.

The leader must have felt his heart leap to his throat as he watched group after group, tribe after tribe pass in front of him. Finally, he turned to 'Abbas and asked incredulously, "Oh Abbas! Who are all these people?" Abbas's reply was
plain and powerful: "This is the Apostle of Allah and his Companions."

When Abu Sufyan approached the Prophet Muhammad begging for pardon and forgiveness, it was not revenge he heard coming from Muhammad's blessed lips. Instead, the Prophet simply said: "He who takes refuge in Abu Sufyan's house is safe; whosoever confines himself to his house, the people therein will be in safety; and he who enters the Sacred Mosque is safe."

With these words Muhammad gave a full pardon and amnesty to the city of Makkah, and it was conquered in peace. To Wahshi, the murderer of Muhammad's uncle Hamzah; a pardon. To Hind, who mutilated his body and chewed his liver, absolute clemency. To Habar, who had attacked the Prophet's daughter so brutally that she eventually died, forgiveness.

After seeing this, the people started to accept Islam in crowds, as long before, God had promised Muhammad they would. " When comes the Help of Allah (to you against your enemies) and conquest (of Makkah), And you see that the people enter Allah's Religion (Islam) in crowds, So glorify the Praises of your Lord, and ask for His forgiveness. Verily, He is the One Who accepts the repentance and forgives"
[110:1-3].

As families were reunited and the Muslims celebrated being back in the sacred city, Muhammad had other things in mind. After offering prayers to God for the victory, he proceeded directly to the House of God, the Ka'bah, that had been polluted by the 360 man-made idols. The Prophet of God proceeded to knock them to the ground with his bow. As he did, he recited the Qur'anic verse: "And Say: Truth (Islamic Monotheism) has come and falsehood (Polythesm) has vanished. Surely! Falsehood is ever-bound to vanish." [17:81].

"Al-Amin" returned to Madinah, where he spent the last years of his extraordinary life in worship and devotion to his Lord. He continued to stand in prayer for hours throughout the night until his ankles were swollen and his wife asked him to stop.

Although he was a ruler of a vast empire in his last years, he continued to sleep on a modest straw mat, with no desire for carpets, or luxuries of any kind. He became ill and passed away in the arms of his wife, Aisha, at the age of 63. He left behind a stunning legacy, a blameless example and a religion that changed the world forever.

jasir:

MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS

Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

Answer:

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:


1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’


A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.


2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same


One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.


3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist


I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.


4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’


According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.


5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist


Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.


6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’


Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.


7. Islam means peace


Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.

sabataiyci:

Your are right... wannabis inflitrated the US
http://www.cair.com/audio/savage_102907.asp

they are very very dangerous.

halozcel:

To Stupid,

Islamic Caliphate was islamic pope from the beginning to 1924.
Caliph had title *Shadow of Allah*
Caliphate was abolished in 1924.

mohammad allam:

I read this article of accusation of writer.Approach is not based on tolerance.other hand the basis defect in all western scholars who study Islam and Islamic society is that they donot want to study the Islam and islamic society in context of religion of Islam but their own social norm.
other hand the gap that is in reformation of western society and Islamic society also not acknoeledge by these western scholars.Can any body tell me that the western society was the same 100 years back as it now.
The approach of scholar can also be challenged on the the expectation of the members of the society.Islamic man and woman still not so out of religion as the case with west.In quest of individual freedom every evils of the past legalised by the west.And they hope that the world should follow them.Every society has its own inspiration,relation with religion and limit,that can be liberalised more with passage of time.The western scholar approach towards the Islamic society is not rational.Their demand to swith suddenly from the present status cannot be accept.The need of transitional society is different from the dynamic moving society.A little mistake will make society towards the suciadal path.West did not changed to present status in second of time but it took more then 300 years.why not this period can also be gauranted to Islamic scoiety.other Islam accept from west to help in tansition of society not the dictation of do this and donot this.And i am sorry to say that majority of western scholars adopted the dicatated approach rather than assistance.
In regard to case of Homosexuality,idolatory,wine,usuary,lesbeniasm Islam has its own rule based on the social acceptability .can west was accepting these practices years back?or the religious establishment has modified the teaching of the religious leaders?No,these religious authorities are silent and what the follower wants to do ,they are doing.This approach can also be adopted in the islamic social norms.The Holy Qurana and Hadith chalking out the rules and regulation for those person who wants to accept the words.Not for those who wants to not follow them.This is not true that Islamic worlds has not all these social practices.Islamic world has these practices ,done by the people.But Islamic Sharia and authority cannot allow these for the whole society.Here the western scholars appraoch is alos faulty.They wants legalaziation of these practices in Islamic world by interpretating in the Sharia.They donot want the freedom of individual will without religious sanction in islamic world.Let we understand that for the few people the law of religion cannot be changed.The minority cannot be allowed to dominant the majority.Can any body tell me what is percentage of people involving in Lesbenianism,Homosexuality.
The point of killing non-believer,Kafir etc has certain historical circumstances.The law of Holy Quran is applicable with certain circumstances.The writer doesnot tell us about those circumstances.see in one example,in modern world the conspiracy against the nation means death.if i write that state is enemy of humanity.Is itnot valid cause to ask people to hate state without expalining the cuase and circumstances.
As far as saudian approach towards the religious education appraoch is concerned it is better than the appraoch of past and present ideological players of the world powers.Can any body tell me why Western powers and people is so much funding for the Globalisation ,capitalistic mode of production,multicorporationalism and uniculture of the world?
If suadian goverment effort is to make people aware with the Islamic civilization then what is worht of blame?I think the western scholar are very much frightened with the march of Islam in europe and America.The western intellectual terrorist are so frightened that they deliberatley divided the saudian effort to neagte with Wahabism.Wahabism is nothing.It is Islam and Islam.The approach of saudian for the unity of islamic world with religious donation and islamic education marginalised by the anti Islamic scholars with Wahabism.So,the people of other part of islam dodnot have ear on this.
let see whats going on in the future.I think no scholar not goverment can change the final destination of europe to be Islamize.
As far as the terrorist attach is concerned we all muslim condemn this act of cruelty and we also condemn al sort of violence in the name of different ideology.can any body expalin me who trained the youth of Islam from saudia to Indonesia for the battle of Afghanistan?
I hope that this will clear the notion.
(Note.when i say about western scholars it refers to only those scholars who are microscopic in their approach not for for those who sacrificed their life for the comfort of the Humanity)

MissMuslim:

Wow. Some of you are just downright...special.

I have a Jewish Grandfather and a Baptist Grandmother. I am Muslim. I was born in America and my background is the three races that actually built this country up(black, white, native American). So, I'm pretty damn American and I love my country.

First of all Somali, you need to do one of two things. Read the Qur'an again, or pick a religion that allows you to hate people for the color of their skin. Islam? Not that religion. Remember the whole Qur'anic verse about Allah making you into tribes so that we can know each other? Check that out. Islam and indeed no religion should give you the right to hate.

To everyone else, I truly hope that whichever God you believe in, erases hatred and hardness from your hearts. I hope you all find peace in your individual faith and paths. God Bless.

Evil Mecca:

What's new? Osama bin Laden grew up in Saudi Arabia.

LIBYAN:

we muslems has quran and all in it is right,no force can change it,because our god protect it,we are right but you are not ,(a mountant cant shake when wind blwo )so do all what you want,no thing will change

troutcor:

For decades, the U.S. supported the Saudis as a bulwark against the secular Arab nationalist movements that seemed to pose a threat to U.S. power in the region or to Israel. Now, as so often happened when the U.S. similarly supported odious regimes in the name of fighting communism, the chickens have come home to roost. When will the U.S. learn that only by supporting its professed but ignored beliefs, i.e. democracy, freedom and self-determination for everyone, will we no longer suffer these episodes of "blowback." When we gonna stop shooting ourselves in the foot?

stupid:

Just go out of your cage.. jack...

there is no such thing as islamic pope.. in our view King is person nothing less nothing more...
only our faith matters in God.

stupid:

"It is time to hold Riyadh to its promises to reform its educational materials. Western security depends on it."

How about.. It is time to hold westerner attacking foreign country in the name global security.. so peace can be achieve.. if you believe.. and do please find there are thousand islam textbooks noted about peace and humanity..

Salauddeen:

It is not possible for a Muslim to practise his religion, Islam (aka Submission) perfectly in Western/Hindu/Buddhist Society.

They will always be offended by women walking unaccompanied by a guardian male with bare midriffs. They will also be offended by pubs/bars serving alcohol. Also eateries serving pork, shellfish, etc.

So it is better if all the Muslims migrate to Islamic countries where they can enjoy a perfect sharia-compliant life and ensure their souls will be received into the paradise promised by Allah.

(Since they are incompetent at managing their technical economies, we shall supply them with najis workers to run their economies so long as they let us buy their oil at a reasonable price - or we sell them no food and let them starve!)

Apostate:

NETGK pontificates:
"Well, , they (Christians) view Joshua in a positive light, do they not? And they view the conquest of Jericho in a positive light, do they not? Even though it involved the slaughter of babies. Of course, the answer to each of these is 'Yes.' Therefore, Christians must view the baby-killing by Joshua and friends in a positive light. It's OK though, because it was THEIR god that ordered it."

The Old Testament was valid during the age of the Mosaic Law. The New Testament is the Age of Grace. Although Christians include the Old Testament in their bible, merely as a historical reference to monitor the change that occurred with the coming of the Age of Grace. This Age was initiated by Jesus and spread by his followers. The teachings of Jesus was an evolution of the Mosaic Law and was condemned by the Jews. That is why they crucified him. I am a Christian and I do not look with “positive light” on what the Israelite tribes had done in Jericho for many reason, the least of which is because those people there were Canaanites i.e. my ancestors.
If a massacre was carried out in Jericho does necessarily mean God approved of it. Jewish gangs had carried out the massacre of the people of Deir Yassin in 1948. I did not hear God approve of that crime . If He had, though, in Deir Yassin or Jericho, He would be no different than the Allah of your cult.

Anonymous:

The Terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!


Netgk:

You sound like a nice person. But you are stupid. And it shows. If you believe, as you do, that the thing that sits in the so-called "white house" drinking alcohol and inhalling cicaine, if you believe this thing is brutal and the enemy of humanity why do you insist on call it "president" still????????

You don't make much sense!!

Netgk:

Somali: On one point, I agree with you: President Bush is the enemy of humanity. He cares nothing about destroying the planet, as long as his cronies are kept fat and happy. But Somali, I'm white, so I guess my opinion is worthless to you.

Somali:

The terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!

You stupid, dumb bloody censor!! You stupid cow!!! you hold my post for cesnroship but you allow "joe" the stupid Ammerican slave to cal me names BUT i cannot call him names????????


You jerk. You stinking, stinking jerk!!!

Anti racist:

White suprimacists and the zionist zombies are having a field day on this topic. Boys get back into your holes. Join KKK.

Joe:

Heather says:
“SOMALI, you are living proof that Muslims should be banned from the Western Hemisphere. You should all be sent back to the Arab countries, which is your only rightful place.”

Why you want to send this monkey to an Arab country? Why not to the hellhole from which he crawled out? aka Somalia.

Eleanor Doumato:

While I note that "realist" does not identify him/herself by name, which gives me pause, I will respond to his/her comments. First, I know that the ISA books have been revised because I have read the new editions from 1st through 12th grades. Second, why should the school have "publicly announced" its introduction of a revised curriculum? Given its small administrative staff I doubt that anyone at the school would have thought of such a thing. Third, when Ms. Shea wrote her article is irrelevant. All of us who write and publish on matters of current events check our facts immediately before submission in case important changes have occurred. In this case, had she telephoned the school as long ago as June of 2008 she would have been told that the revisions were finished.

Netgk:

Heather: Clearly you give little thought to your comments. The Bible clearly states that Joshua and friends slaughtered everyone in Jericho. That includes babies. You'll have to argue with the Bible, not me.

Alex:

fr Heather:

>...SOMALI, you are living proof that Muslims should be banned from the Western Hemisphere. You should all be sent back to the Arab countries, which is your only rightful place. You have no right to be here. Go back now.<

Um, what if they are BORN here???

Heather:

NETGK, The inhabitants of Jericho probably killed all their own children through child-sacrifices. Also remember that God sent two angels to wipe out Sodom and Gomorrah. If there any children there to save, I'm sure they would've been evacuated before the destruction took place.

SOMALI, you are living proof that Muslims should be banned from the Western Hemisphere. You should all be sent back to the Arab countries, which is your only rightful place. You have no right to be here. Go back now.

California Irishman:

To John Marth, the US government doesn't provide any monetary support to Christian churchs for religious services. And if you haven't noticed, its not the Christians, Jews, Buddists, or Hindus that are trying to destory the Western countries. What did Obama learn in the Islamic school he attended in Jarkarta?

Oy!:

-- Raise the carbon/gas tax! As the Post again pointed out today, doubling the gas tax would still put the cost of gas below where it was a month ago, but would benfit the US, and would help insure that the road to alternate fuels and technologies and higher mileage vehicles continues.

--It's not only the Saudi's teaching and preaching that the Protocols are fact, it's being done all over the Muslim/Arab world. They're not exclusive in teaching hate about others, esp. Jews (and Israelis, non-Muslims, Americans, etc), the Pals do it, the Eqyptians do it, certainly Iran, Syria, and those great "open" countries like North Korea...
Until this changes, things will only get worse, not better.

-- One has to also ask, why we tolerate this teaching of hate. Germany bans hate speech, we don't allow "Fire!" to be yelled in a crowded theater, etc.

-- Helps to explain why the Saudis don't allow construction of churches, shuls, etc in their country and why there is little to no tolerance for other religions, schools of thought, etc in much of the Muslim/Arab world. If a Christian can't even bring a Bible into the Kingdom, why allow this outright hate mongering in any democracy?

-- Raise the tax, save the world!

Observer:

With all this talk about Saudi Arabia in particular and Jihad(Muslim terrorism) on the other hand in general, I felt a need to offer some clarifications. First not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. Arabs, who have 23 countries today, comprise only 20% of all Muslims.
Christian Arabs while they were at one time the vast majority of the populations of the Middle East and North Africa, now they are minorities in these regions. Their percentage ranges from 40% percent in Lebanon to 0% in Saudi Arabia.
In the American continents, however, Christian Arabs now outnumber the total number of all Muslims by at least a factor of 2. The reason being that Christian Arabs, who sometimes are referred to as Syrians, began to immigrate in the late 19th Century because of persecution at the hands of the ruling Turks. Muslims, Arabs and others, started emigrating to North and South America only in the seventies of the last century.
Christian Arabs who mostly belong to the Eastern Orthodox church,have threaded themselves within the fabric of the societies they live in that they could hardly be distinguished. They do not try to impose their culture or ideology on any one else , because they have integrated fully and quickly. If anything distinguishes them is their patriotism toward their adopted countries. They produced presidents, presidential candidates, senators, representatives, governors and leaders and pioneers in medicine, science, arts, business and industry. They have produced US army commanding generals as well fighter jet aces. I sometimes can discern an Arab American only from his last name; John abu Rizk, Michael DeBakey, Danny Touma, Ralph Nader, James Zughbi, Tony Shalhoub etc. They seem to exude an influence that is far greater than their numbers. In the small Midwestern town where I once lived there are two YMCA Farha Sport Centers that I know of, Ablah state University Library, Colonel James Jabara Airport and Jabara Museum.
This observation is furnished for the benefit of those who are sometimes inclined to make generalizations about the Arabs.


NEO:

There is only one factual error in this article. The behavior listed is not something that Saudi Arabia came up with, but is the basic doctrine of Islam.

Realist:

Eleanor Doumato: Challenge you to provide a link or other documentation confirming your assertion that ISA is no longer using the disputed textbooks. It would be helpful if the documentation shows when this change was publicly announced by ISA. Sure you realize that it is possible that Nina Shea's article was written before the alleged textbook change took place.

Jack Fairweather: I think Eleanor Doumato's assertion deserves a response from you or Ms. Shea about when her article was written.

Netgk:

To Big Shaker (aka BS):

Re: "I defy you to explain how your example of baby-killing is or ever has been part of Christian doctrine"

OK, BS, here goes: If Christians believe in the Old Testament, which they do, then the baby-killing of Jericho is part of Christian doctrine. It's that simple.

Furthermore, there is an online debate I can point you to in which Christians actually admitted that Jesus would have approved of the baby killing (since he's actually God, who ordered the slaughter in the first place), and would have even carried it out himself if ordered by God (er...himself)!

Re: "(I defy you to explain how) Christians think it's "just great."

Well, BS, they view Joshua in a positive light, do they not? And they view the conquest of Jericho in a positive light, do they not? Even though it involved the slaughter of babies. Of course, the answer to each of these is 'Yes.' Therefore, Christians must view the baby-killing by Joshua and friends in a positive light. It's OK though, because it was THEIR god that ordered it.

President Bush:

All ya whinning, liberal Patsies! Eat Lead!

McCain/Palin in 08

Obama/Biden if you really want a ad fate!

Eleanor Doumato:

The article by Nina Shea gives the false impression that the Islamic Saudi Academy is currently using the Saudi government religion textbooks. The books for the religion curriculum at this school have been completely revised for use at ISA starting in Fall 2008, which is now.
Shea's article also creates the false impression that the religion textbooks should have been translated into English "for review" subsequent to "Congressional and other appeals." Who, exactly, made such an appeal for translation, to whom was it made, and who was expected to pay for it?
If Ms. Shea had wanted to see the books,she should have gone to the ISA and asked for them. If she has specific concerns about the religion curriculum used at the school, she might have addressed them to members of the ISA faculty or administration, rather than simply issue press releases for consumption by the general public.
As it is, the whole run of religion textbooks were deposited at least a year ago with the State Department, where, presumably, they would be made available to persons interested in seeing them.

Somali:

The Terrorist They Call "president" Is The Enemy Of Humanity!!

This ALL Nonsense!!!

Who is mass murdering whom TODAY??? Is the ONLY question. The white man thinks we, Muslims, are stupid. The beast, he doesn't know any beter.

It is TRUE, we Muslims HATE you white man. We hate you and LOATh you because you HATE US and LOATH us. You have been killing our women and children for eith years NOW. You have been bombing our villages and destroying our countries and our societies mercilessly for eight years now. In the process, the loathsome white man has managed to mass murder MORE THAN 1,000,000 civilain Muslims, the VAST MAJORITY of whom are WOMEN and CHILDREN. In the world we ALL live in, the most VILE, most cowardly, most yellow bellied, most evil are the KILLERS of women and babies.

Even in your own movies, white man, the bad guys who kill women and children are LOATHED by EVERYONE and eventually they are rewarded with death for their EVIL.

We HATE you white man, because like the coward that you are, you have mass murdered our women and children for almost a decade now. hating the man who kills your women and children is NATURAL. But the stupid, loathsome white man has NOOOOOO understanding of this. It is as if he lives on another planet. may be he IS from another planet and is ALIEN to this planet. That may explain why the white man is SOOOOO ANTI-NATURE, everyything he does tends to destroy nature!!!

Big Shaker:

And "freethinker," I defy you to show how Baptists are inherently racist. There may be racist Baptists, as there are racists in every walk of society. If you want to see racism in action, try to get past your kneejerk anti-Christian PC multicultural moral equivalence and look at militant Islam. You people who always resort to the "all religions are equally bad" nonsense never want to acknowledge the vast GOOD that has been done in the name of religion.

Big Shaker:

Netgk; Your comment is positively idiotic. I defy you to explain how your example of baby-killing is or ever has been part of Christian doctrine or that Christians think it's "just great." People like you who cherry-pick violent episodes from the Old Testament and claim that Christian doctrine is no better than militant Islam are simply willfully deluded, and ignorant of both Christian and Islamic history.

freethinker:

Christian doctrine may not say that believers should
kill others but a lot of bad has been done in the Lord's name. Whether it be racism among Baptists or Palin telling students that God sent us to Iraq, actions speak louder than talk.

The Almighty:

Recently heard a catholic priest state that, from the point of view of that particular church, the nazis responsible for the operation of the gas chambers (and the deaths of the 6 million killed thereby) during ww2 would go to heaven if they "found god" prior to their death; this strikes me as condoning if not advocating killing for religion.

ps No mention was made of what happened to the 6 million non-believers (Jewish for the most part we are told) who were burned, went to hell I suppose.

Netgk:

To Jack: I basically agree with you that no religion should teach that it's OK to kill those with different beliefs. But I disagree with your statement that "Christian doctrine in recent times" doesn't preach this. The Old Testament is certainly part of current Christian doctrine (how many times do we hear Christians citing the creation story or the so-called Ten Commandments?). Now let's all recall how Joshua told his people that a voice in his head, which he said was "God," had ordered that all the inhabitants of Jericho be slaughtered. Including babies. But since this is the Christian god, Christians think this baby-killing is just great! Yay Joshua!

California Irishman:

What did Obama learn during his time at the Islamic School in Jarkata?

Ajay:

Evangelism is prevalent in Christianity as well thru missionaries. But in Islam it is violent like 9/11 and other daily terror attacks. It almost seem terror is inherent in Islam.

Curmudgeon10 (Manassas, VA):

The use of these hate texts in the United States is an OLD, and unfortunately, CONTINUING story. It reminds me of North Korea and Iran's nuclear programs (first, its "we don't have one," then its "you don't understand what we have"). While the West tortures itself trying to find a PC way to say enough is enough, the teaching of hate goes ON and ON.

Is there not anyone in a position of power left in this country with the cojones to just say, "You've got 30 days to get rid of all this junk, or you can fold up your tents and take them, along with your camels, home?"

Fairfax County could have closed the Saudi Academy if there was anyone in the county other than a bunch of PC, Chamberlain-like, kumbaya singing, "progressives." They chose to punt to the State Department, another hotbed of do nothings. It's disgusting.

Gus:

This is where the money we spend on oil goes. We must find alternatives.

Koranist:

Traditional Islam or what some say Sunni Sufism is not that different from Wahhabism accept in their concept of monotheism. The Wahhabis believe any intercession between God and humans is polytheism. They both are staunch followers of thehadiths, especially the one compiled 2 centuries after Muhammad by Imam Bukhari.

The only solution are the Koranist, those who follow only the Koran.

Visit free-minds.org for more about the Koran and its followers rather than the Sunni/Shia hadiths inspired religious sectarianism.

Jack:

And once again, like a broken record, supporters of jihadist Islam use the eye-for-an-eye excuse.

I'm no Christian, but I'd like to point out 2 huge holes in this line of reasoning:

1. I've never heard of Christian doctrine in recent times supporting the killing of people just for religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Furthermore, I can't even think of any Christian doctrine that's purpose is to support the killing of *anything*.

2. Let's just go nuts and say Christian doctrine does do this same exact thing. Is it right for Wahhabi doctrine to do the same? Is that the answer?

Bill in Chicago:

The Saudis are doing much worse than simply teaching hate:

http://www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

They are the real enemy in the War on Terror, on every level.

gary:

oberle wrote: Can the school in Northern Virginia be closed down because of these textbooks?

^---Moderate tolerant schools like those are the buffer that keeps the violent extremists from bombing our skyscrapers. Your ignorance borders on treason, son. Don't mess up my country.

John Marth:

Please tell your readers how much money the United States spend per year to support Christianity and destroy Islam.

oberle:

Can the school in Northern Virginia be closed down because of these textbooks?

PostGlobal is an interactive conversation on global issues moderated by Newsweek International Editor Fareed Zakaria and David Ignatius of The Washington Post. It is produced jointly by Newsweek and washingtonpost.com, as is On Faith, a conversation on religion. Please send us your comments, questions and suggestions.