Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff at PostGlobal: Accepting Difference in Our Workforce

I think the worst company for outsourcing is LloydsTSB in IT who are replacing their staff with Inian staff paid the minumum wage. Existing staff are being bullied out of the organisation. Outsourcing is one thing, but tactics to victimise, humiliate and bully in the 21st century are just not acceptable.

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March 19, 2008 12:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on March 19, 2008 12:23

Mr. Williams John Douglas:

Dear Prospective Partner,

I am Mr Williams John Douglas, the Director in Auditing and Accounting
Dept.with Lloyds TSB Bank Plc. London- UK. I have an urgent and very
confidential business proposal for you. A German multi-National
contractor and a British Pounds Sterling account holder, Mr.Dieter Weber
deposited funds with us in his British Pounds Sterling account with Lloyds
TSB Bank Plc., London- UK to the tune
of £11.Million Pounds (Eleven Million British Pounds Sterling).

He died in france plane crash Flug AF 4590 by the year 1999 with his
wife Mrs Gisela Weber without leaving any relations I have tried several
years after his death to trace any of his relations that might come
over to claim the funds deposited with us as his next of kin but found
none. I was his accounts officer and managed his account for him until his
death. I was soon promoted to become the Director Auditing and
Accounting department and this makes all easy for us as I know how to go about
getting the funds transferred to you o Please you can
visit this website to see more of what i am telling you about the france
plane crash Flug AF 4590:
http://www.brothermichael.com/departed/concorde.html

This funds if not claimed before the expiration of his year, the entire
funds will be reverted to the ownership of the British Government.
Consequently, my proposal to you is that I want you as a foreigner to
stand as the next of kin to the deceased so that the funds will not be
claimed back by the Government officials here. So what I want us to is
simple, I will like you to be presented as the next of kin to the deceased.
Your nationality or person does not matter. All that I need is a
sincere personality to accomplish this project.

Please note that your name or where you come from does not matter at
all because all the necessary documents/changes will be done by me in
your favour as the beneficiary with my position here and I will prepare
the necessary documents for the drafting and notarization of the WILL and
obtain the necessary documents and letter of probate/administration in
your favour to show that you are the next of kin to the deceased.

The bank's Board Of Directors will at the end of the day contact you
after going through the documents that the deceased lawyer will provide
for you. Take note that the total sum of £11,000,000.00 Pounds Sterling
will be shared in the ratio of 60% for me while 30% will be for you for
assisting us claiming the funds. 10% of the funds is set aside for any
incidental expenses in the course of the transfer to you.

There is no risk involved at all, the paperwork for this transaction
will be done legally, this will guarantee the successful execution of
the transaction. If you are interested, please reply immediately, and
upon your response, I shall provide you with more details and relevant
documents that will help you understand the transaction. Please observe
utmost confidentiality and be rest assured that this transaction would
be most profitable for both of us because I shall require your
assistance to invest my share in your country and I also want to donate some
part of my share to charity and more information will come your way upon
your response. Upon the reciept of this
message,please feel free to reply me this important message.
To start the documentations, you are required to send the following
details:

1. Your Full Names:...................................
2. Full Contact address:..............................
3. Private Telephone and Fax numbers:...................
4. Date of Birth:...........................
5. Age:........................................
6. Occupation:................................
7. Bank Account details:.................................

Thanks and best regards in anticipation of your reply through
my private EMAIL: williamsdjohn@uku.co.uk

Mr. Williams John Douglas
(Director: Auditing and Accounting Dept. Lloyds TSB Bank Plc.)

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September 12, 2007 3:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments

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September 12, 2007 2:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments

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www nikemate com:

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September 12, 2007 2:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments

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August 14, 2007 11:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on August 14, 2007 11:41

Atheist, Boston, USA:

Someone wrote, "First I would like to say, what about all the people who are on waiting lists to come to the US. That's how my husband got here. He came from a Latin American country from the far south, so it's impossible to make it on foot or drive. We don't have a fair immigration system. We have a system where a particular group is getting special treatment. The people who really don't have a choice are those are who are so far away they have to apply for a visa and buy an airline ticket. These are the people being discriminated against, which includes Africa and Asia."

Of course, amnesty is unfair. The Mexicans, being total morons, destroyed their own society. They then insist that American wealth "belongs" to the Mexicans because the Americans "stole" Texas and California. The Mexican ignoramuses demand the "right" to take some of this American wealth.

So, the Mexicans flood into the USA. They demand amnesty. American politicians oblige because they see plenty of Hispanic votes in this flood of morons from Mexico.

We should note that admission to the USA is not a right. Americans have no ethical obligation to admit economic refugees.

The core problem is not that the American immigration laws are unfair (even though they are indeed unfair). The core problem is that most desperate immigrants from Africa, Asia, and South America come from failed societies. These societies are full of utter morons who destroyed their own society.

From 1950 until 1990, the Soviet empire forced the Eastern Europeans to eat dirt. The Soviet animals force fed propaganda into each Eastern European home. Yet, after the Soviets exited Eastern Europe in 1990, most Eastern European societies embarked on the road to political and financial prosperity within one year -- one year, not 20 years.

What, the hell, is the problem with the Africans, the Cambodians, and the South Americans?

May 28, 2007 3:32 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 28, 2007 03:32

PF Moreno:

First I would like to say, what about all the people who are on waiting lists to come to the US. That's how my husband got here. He came from a Latin American country from the far south, so it's impossible to make it on foot or drive. We don't have a fair immigration system. We have a system where a particular group is getting special treatment. The people who really don't have a choice are those are who are so far away they have to apply for a visa and buy an airline ticket. These are the people being discriminated against, which includes Africa and Asia.

One person said the illegals and descendants of the Native Americans that live in the US, but they are from totally different tribes. They spoke different languages. I have heard Mexicans make the same claim, but if you ask someone who's Cherokee if they agree with Mexico being entitle to this land, they will be pissed. I do believe the Cherokee and many other Indian tribes where screwed out of this land, but it wasn't the Mexicans. So how is letting Mexico have an unfair immigration advantage going to make up the tragedy the American Indians have endured.

One more thing, this is a great NPR article http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10131854 A conference was held in Mexico on migration where they stated the US economy is slowing down, so they won't be able to rely on people sending money home anymore, so they are saying they better find other means for an income.

May 28, 2007 12:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 28, 2007 00:17

White Southerner:

I don't know anything about Germany except they have a reputation for being snobby, arrogant, elitist, as well as hard-working, meticulous, neat, detail-oriented workers. As an American, I admire their work-habits but deplore their social skills (or lack thereof).

Many of the comments on this have concerned Mexican workers here in the US. Rightly so.

I have a neighbor who's a painter. A few months ago, I noticed his work slowed down. Then, I noticed his hiring practices had changed. He used to have Hispanic employees; now, he has white & black employees.

A local farmer interviewed for an article in the local paper said he's paying $8+/hour for workers, but he can't get a single local American worker to apply. Only migrant Hispanics show up. He said he's willing to hire anyone who'll work. There are plenty of white & black people working for much less per hour at restaurants & factories, but they don't want to pick strawberries, or peaches.

My mother (white) said she worked picking cotton one summer as a teenager. She said it's the "hottest, most back-breaking job I ever had". It's sweaty, physical, outdoors.

When did we become a sedentary indoor society? And what has it done to us? Obesity. Diabetes. High blood pressure.

We spend a lot of time in gyms, working our butts off trying to lose weight. Why not just go work in a field a few hours a day as a 2nd job? And get PAID instead of paying for the privilege? We'd be better off. And we wouldn't have an "immigration problem".

What about putting teens to work in fields? Whatever happened to requiring teens to work to earn the money to buy their first car, instead of being given one?

Socially, I'd say we need to fix the problem ourselves. It's us that's the problem, not them.

May 26, 2007 8:12 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 26, 2007 08:12

J. Rhinehart:

Why are people entering their comments multiple times? Waste.

May 26, 2007 7:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 26, 2007 07:48

bman:

Which Germany are you talking about? The Germany I regularly visit is filled with people who believe that immigration, hedge funds and private equity are existential threats. I am yet to meet a German that has come to terms with immigration or globalization. Most believe that Poles and Turks will steal their jobs. Also, breaking the 8% barrier does not constitute full employment.
The fact is that most Germans’ response to the structural problems that haunt their future is denial and fear of bogey men. I don’t expect a new enlightened age of German openness.

May 25, 2007 2:06 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 14:06

bman:

Has this guy been to Germany recently. I travel there often, and I am yet to meet a German that doesn't beleive Poles and Turks are stealing all the jobs. Immigrants, hedgefunds and private equity are viewed as existintial threats by the Germans I have met. I don't see how you can say Germany has come to terms with this.
Also breaking the 8% barrier does not constitute full employment.

May 25, 2007 1:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 13:53

bman:

Has this guy been to Germany recently. I travel there often, and I am yet to meet a German that doesn't beleive Poles and Turks are stealing all the jobs. Immigrants, hedgefunds and private equity are viewed as existintial threats by the Germans I have met. I don't see how you can say Germany has come to terms with this.
Also breaking the 8% barrier does not constitute full employment.

May 25, 2007 1:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 13:53

Atheist, Boston, USA:

An Indian propagandist wrote, "economic reasons for H1B? now what could 0.7% of the workers give you? how about a group that made silicon valley what it is? how about 25% of startups and patents? how about some of the most important tech companies in your life- ever used hotmail? how about doctors that serve rural communities and hold distinguished professorships in the best universities?"

Note the implication in this propaganda. The Indian implies that admitting Indian H-1Bs boosted the American GDP per capita.

The fact is that admitting Indians did not boost GDP per capita. Think about this scenario. A big-mouthed Indian starts Hotmail. That big-mouthed Indian, all by himself, cannot run Hotmail. So, he hires some American citizens to work in his company. Then, he created wealth. Right?

Yes, he did create wealth. However, he also destroyed wealth. The American citizens that he hired quit their previous jobs at other companies. In other words, the big-mouthed Indian merely transferred wealth from the other companies to Hotmail. The net gain for the American economy is roughly zero.

Next, the Indian propagandist shouts, "Hey, man! Just open the flood gates to H-1B workers. Then, Hotmail can hire additional worker without transferring Americans citizens from their current companies to Hotmail. Then, we have a net gain of GDP."

Yes, we have a net gain of GDP. However, that GDP is now amortized among a bigger American population: (1) all the additional new H-1B folks hired into Hotmail and (2) the additional foreign workers (e.g., Mexicans) hired to support those folks. How did #2 enter the picture? More H-1B folks means more people who need dry cleaners, attendants at the local shops to sell products to those folks, more gas stations, etc. Etc. Etc.

In order words, the GDP per capita did not change.

Note that both Korea and Japan generally prohibit the hiring of foreign high-tech workers. Yet, both countries have prospered well.

Proponents of H-1B workers are outright liars. They exploit your ignorance of economic science. Do yourself a favor. Read a standard textbook on economics from any reputable university. The effort will arm you with the knowledge to condemn Indian propagandists.

Furthermore, Indian propagandists claim that labor shortages damage the American economy. Therefore, according to these liars, we must hire Indian H-1Bs.

What does economic science say? Labor shortages are normal. They indicate the underpricing of labor. If a rural community has an insufficient number of physicians, then that community must increase the pay offered to doctors working at the public hospital.

When Washington intervenes by injecting foreign labor into the labor market to "fix" a supposed labor shortage, the government actually damages the operation of the free market. Government never fixes a labor surplus (like the one leading to massive layoffs in Detroit). Why should government fix a labor shortage?

I condemn Indian propagandists.

May 25, 2007 1:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 13:26

Roger Buffalo:

Interesting article on Germany inviting workers into Germany. I assume that the English language shows a difference between invite and illegal.

May 25, 2007 11:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 11:40

reporter, USA, http://theclearsky.blogspot.com/:

Consider the United States. It has about 300 million citizens. Its gross domestic product (GDP) is about $12 trillion. The GDP per capita is about $40,000.

Suppose that we inject 300 million desperate Indians (from India) into the USA. Its population suddenly doubles to 600 million people. The GDP remains the same at $12 trillion. The GDP per capita falls to $20,000.

In this scenario, we assume a constant level of technology. Over time, the GDP grows rapidly as the economy aborbs the 300 million Indians. Eventually, the GDP reaches $24 trillion, and the GDP per capita returns to $40,000. (Actually, the GDP per capita will exceed $40,000 slightly due to the comparative advantage of the larger population.) Once GDP per capita reaches $40,000, the growth spurt ends.

The propaganda game that pro-immigration bigots play is the following. They shout, "Look at the tremendous wealth that 300 million Indians added to the American nation. The GDP increased by $12 trillion to $24 trillion! Wow! Awesome!"

What is the error in the reasoning of the pro-immigration bigots? Well, the total GDP is not the correct measure of your wealth. The correct measure is GDP per capita. Adding 300 million Indians did not increase your wealth or my wealth at all.

There is no economic necessity, whatsoever, for H-1B workers, illegal aliens, or an open border.

When a nation, like the United States, has a sufficiently large population (on the order of hundreds of millions of people), dumping hordes of immigrants into the nation offers almost no economic benefit. Indeed, in the short term and the medium term, a large number of immigrants actually suppresses wages and diminishes working conditions -- in both high-tech jobs and low-tech jobs.

A study by Harvard University demonstrated that illegal aliens from Mexico actually suppressed the wages of unskilled American labor by about 8%.

There is no economic justification for immigrants. Immigration can be justified on only ethical grounds. For example, the United States regularly offers political asylum to anyone who is fleeing dire political persecution.

How should we Americans deal with the flood of people from India, Mexico, and elsewhere? Washington should intervene aggressively in foreign countries that flood their people into the USA. A larger flood means a larger degree of intervention by us.

Consider Mexico. Its society is a total and utter failure because Mexican culture is a failure. To deal with this failure, we give the Mexican government a plan to Westernize Mexico. We order the Mexican government to implement this plan. If a Mexican politician obstructs this Westernization plan, then we aggressively punish the offending Mexican politician. We (1) freeze his assets (and the assets of his relatives) in the West, (2) declare him (and his relatives) persona non grata thoughout the West, and (3) deny him (and his relatives) any access to Western medical facilities even if such denial results in his death (or his relative's death). Further, we Americans will fund and promote Mexican politicians who are committed to Westernization. We will run Mexico like a colony. Of course, if Mexican drug smugglers enter American territory, the American military will pursue them -- even into Mexican territory. If the Mexican military interferes in our pursuit of Mexican criminals, then we kill the soldiers in the Mexican military.

P.S.
----
Most Americans have never taken a course in economics. As a result, they are easily manipulated by (1) lying, deceptive bigots in the pro-immigration groups, (2) lying, deceptive lobbyists for American companies, and (3) lying, deceptive American politicians who have been purchased by American companies or pro-immigration groups. Bigots, lobbyists, and politicians deliberately state economic lies in order to fool the ignorant American voter.

May 25, 2007 3:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 25, 2007 03:04

mcaboy:

I hope these politicos should talk about enforcing the existing laws than enacting another one geared for more illegals. The 12M estimate is a very conservative number. These 12M have 2 or more in their household that double or triple the number. its more like 24M to 30M illegals all over the US.

These illegals came mostly from Mexico whose national policy is to let its poor to go North (US), let them work and send money home. The money that is sent home benefits the Mexican elite. You never hear an educated Mexican telling sub-stories supporting his/her family. They are also encourage to go North (US), so they can get all the social services this gracious politicians give them. To top the migration process, they also send their criminals to the US and leave their policing to us.

So Mr. Politician, what don't you understand about the word illegal? Try for once work for the good of the taxpayers.

May 24, 2007 11:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 23:45

d.lee:

Undoubtedly, there are questions of economics, and EVERYONE must pay there fair share to live in this Great Land. But I hope that every white male (I am one)realizes that they WON THE LOTTERY when they were born as white male citizens of this country. Yes, you pay your dues, and EVERYONE should, but there are those that cross our bogus line in the sand called a border to try and attain a meager lifestyle ... they risk their life on it.

As you sit on your high horse and point your finger at illegals and how they are criminal for crossing a line someone drew with their boot, remember that you drew the ace in the hole when you came out of your mother's womb who was an American citizen and you just as easily could have drawn the card that placed you in subsaharan Africa, a victim of Aides and Malaria, in a religious battleground.

You could have been born with flies on your face, but instead you got lucky.

May 24, 2007 10:41 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 22:41

Oracle:

The basic fact is that if the US wants to keep growing & expanding economically , jobs are going to be created both at the high level and at the low level. i.e we are going to need people to work as management consultants and chip designers as well as someone to pack our meat and pick our lettuce. They go hand in hand. If you want highly skilled workers, which the US has always needed, then at some point you are going to want unskilled labor too. There is no way around this fact.
Having said this, the new immigration bill is insane. What is a guest worker program going to do? Is there really anyone foolish enough to think that if we create a guest worker program people will stop coming over illegally? All the coyotes, these human trafickers, are now going to tell people...."you know what, you dont need our services in crossing the border anymore, there is a guest worker program in place now, so you can just go line up outside the consulate?

May 24, 2007 10:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 22:04

Justthe guy:

ok... here's the scoop... the ability of our society to produce enough people to maintain economic growth has woefully decline over the past 100+ years... and this includes both educated and uneducated people. Read Thomas Freidman's latest column about the incredibly low number of US-born engineering PhDs. Take a look at US fertility rates (sans immigrant numbers). The truth is that in the past it was possible to have families of 3,.,5, and more children in the household. Try that today. How muuch does it cost to raise a child? So, the bottom line is that we need to bring in "guest" workers because we can'rt produce enough workers ourselves. Ask the agriculture industry. Ask Silicon Valley. So, if we want fewer immigrants, legal or illegal, then we better get with it and find ways to be able to have more babies. And to educate them.

May 24, 2007 9:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 21:18

Jack:

Instead of outsourcing work to India, China and other countries, we would be wise to put ID's guest workers from Mexico and South America to work in the US. We could control the quality and collect taxes and social security. The racist and the haters are hell bent on deporting 20 million human beings calling them criminals and subhuman. These are fear and hate tactics of the religious right and the Rovians.
The haters can not argue that we do need the money for tax and social security. They worry, however, that if we collect this money from guest workers, they have weakened arguments for their racism.

Gimme a break these people crossed the border ILLEGALLY!!!!!!! Let me say that again ILLEGALLY!!!!!!! what do you people not get about that? the illegal immigrants, though human beings, came here illegally and now they demand the same rights as everyone else including citizenship, but they don't want to pay taxes and social security, and we are about to give it to them. What kind of a message does that send to immigrants who do the paperwork and work hard to become a legal citizen? But we need them here to work. Citizenship, but not amnesty. Each person who crossed the border illegally must pay a fine. Thats how I see it.

May 24, 2007 8:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 20:53

SnottyNozeBratt:

The media makes it about race, as well as those that need something to rant about.

Everyone I know whose life and home have been taken over by immigrants resents the filth, overcrowding and paying for millions of babies and food for their families off govt programs.

As i drive up and down the roads on the eastern seaboard of the u.s., I'd say we are past the point of no return.

They don't pay taxes here - sorry - what social security program is it they contribute too?

They bankrupt our hospitals.

5,000 dollars? please. That wouldn't pay for one babies --> birth, let alone the welfare they get after that.

I've been told that other countries DO NOT issue citizenship to you if you are born there of foreign parentage. How true is that?

May 24, 2007 6:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:52

SnottyNozeBratt:

The media makes it about race, as well as those that need something to rant about.

Everyone I know whose life and home have been taken over by immigrants resents the filth, overcrowding and paying for millions of babies and food for their families off govt programs.

As i drive up and down the roads on the eastern seaboard of the u.s., I'd say we are past the point of no return.

They don't pay taxes here - sorry - what social security program is it they contribute too?

They bankrupt our hospitals.

5,000 dollars? please. That wouldn't pay for one babies --> birth, let alone the welfare they get after that.

I've been told that other countries DO NOT issue citizenship to you if you are born there of foreign parentage. How true is that?

May 24, 2007 6:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:52

SnottyNozeBratt:

The media makes it about race, as well as those that need something to rant about.

Everyone I know whose life and home have been taken over by immigrants resents the filth, overcrowding and paying for millions of babies and food for their families off govt programs.

As i drive up and down the roads on the eastern seaboard of the u.s., I'd say we are past the point of no return.

They don't pay taxes here - sorry - what social security program is it they contribute too?

They bankrupt our hospitals.

5,000 dollars? please. That wouldn't pay for one babies --> birth, let alone the welfare they get after that.

I've been told that other countries DO NOT issue citizenship to you if you are born there of foreign parentage. How true is that?

May 24, 2007 6:52 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:52

RdRunner:

At least the immigrants have to eat here. They must rent here and they spend most of their income here. The real problem is outsourcing: jobs shipped overseas quietly. That is what is draining this country's resources. Corporate America has been doing it legally for years. No payrol taxes and no social security paid. And we will never see a single dime of the money that goes to India, China and other countries.

May 24, 2007 6:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:47

greg depaul:

Oh puhleez, stop this condescending talk about how mean old Germany didn't know what it was getting when it brought Turks inside its borders. What about the Turkish workers who may not have realized that along with opportunity abroad came an obligation to respect German cultural traditions and laws? Or to tread lightly upon their new home turf until they could be accepted? It's a two-way street.

Only journalists and academics -- who like to think they are citizens of the world -- are so comfortable smugly wagging their fingers. Most people realize that Germans have a right to set whatever conditions they like on immigration -- it's their country. Same for Turks and Bulgarians. Even, God forbid, Americans.

May 24, 2007 6:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:43

Scott:

Can I have amnnesty please if I go to Washington with a shotgun and blow a hole in a few senators? I am a nice hardworking guy with a family, can I have amnesty if I get a little angrier and do this?

I live in a suburban neighborhood overrun with illegals living 10 to a house. Noise is up, parking is unavailable for any visitors, gang graffiti is popping up, and standard of living is down. This is the fate awaiting all of America if we keep encouraging international criminals to come here.

These people are criminals and I'm sick of do-gooder bleeding hearts trying to talk their way around that. Would you pay a drug smuggler thousands of dollars to smuggle you across a border and set you up with fraudulent ID so that you could get a raise at your job? if you did, would you feel entitled to stay and live off public assistence (while driving an SUV around town as I see all over my city) and cry red tears if anyone wanted to make you comply with the law?

The choice is yours America. Defend your right to a decent wage and a decent standard of living from the elite businessmen who run this country and this President. Or give up and turn this nation into a third world country dominated by big business, with a middle class bogged down by an ever-increasing underclass that streams across our border (while Michael Chertoff sits on his hands and PRETENDS to be interested in "homeland security". How hard is it to walk across our border, get a job in a food plant, and poison our food?).

If you feel angry about this, you're right to. Come tour my bombed-out suburban neighborhood and you'll know that your anger is justified.

May 24, 2007 6:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 18:16

IMSOTI:

Illegal immigrants came here to make money. Of course, they didn’t pay income tax because to pay income tax they must have a S.S. number, but the S.S. numbers they gave to their employers were faked. They, however, had to pay S.S. and medical taxes on these faked S.S. cards to make it look legal, knowing they would never benefit from their S.S. and medical tax contributions. The day they couldn’t find work, these illegal immigrants would immediately disappear without us having to lift a finger. But that day never came, because the number of employers kept growing to include high ranking police officers, cabinet members, members of the Congress, diplomats, etc. Bill Gates wouldn’t care how much his gardener was paid, but Congressman X, or Senator Y would immediately feel the brunt and vote for a congressional pay increase, if tomorrow no one would mow their lawn at the rate they used to pay. Do illegal immigrants want to be U.S. citizens? Yes, if the word citizen means money and no if it’s not. The illegal immigrant problem could be solved tomorrow if we could have an acceptable answer to these questions. Do you, politicians--especially those in Texas, California, Florida, etc.—vie for their votes? If a lawyer couldn’t afford to pay $20 an hour for a baby sitter, how could the rest of us? Do you want to pay $100 per night for a modest highway motel, or $5 a pound for tomatoes, etc? The list can go on for a mile.

May 24, 2007 5:47 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 17:47

Ivan:

Let's suppose those 12 million illegal immigrants in US are criminals and you will be able to round them up and expell from this land. How? Send them all south to Mexico? Pretty international problem you will have with one of your main trade partners. I suppose your swimming pools, home cleaning and lawns will be done by your dogs.The fruit and other vegetables harvest will be done by urban people looking for open spaces jobs and the meat will be processed by laid off executives that lost their jobs by oursourcing in India. Come on. Those hard working people deserves an opportunity to become citizens, like the europeans that arrived through Ellis Island. Those europeans brought with them mafiosi but also hard working people. Many had a cultural level inferior or similar to current ilegals. And they first took the jobs that no US born american would like to have and didn´t speak English. I think is a myth that the majority of Hispanics immigrants don´t want to learn English. Like the Germans, Hungarians, Swedish,etc.that arrived in New York in the XIX century, they just like to talk their language because is their mother tongue.

May 24, 2007 5:32 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 17:32

Jeff in SC:

Anyone that follows the immigration debate should know that the "We can't deport 20 Million people" line is a strawman argument. When did we import 20 million people? Did we send trains, planes & ships to Mexio, Latin America & Eastern Europe to import 20 million? Heck no, they came on their own using their own resources! Crack down on illegal employment and they return on their own within 12 - 24 months. BTW, the US has the most liberal immgration laws in the industrialized world! Enforce the laws on the Books! And yes, I am a progressive.

May 24, 2007 5:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 17:31

KA:

The descendants of the 'guest workers' of other European countries living in Germany are not regarded by 'ethnic' Germans as fellow citizens, to say nothing of the Turks routinely asked by these fellow citizens, without a hint of irony, when they plan to return or how the weather is 'at home' (as if they knew any other home than rainy Hamburg or dreary Duisburg). Turkey will not become a member of the European Union, partly because of its own democracy deficit but in a larger sense because of the grave misgivings Germans and other Europeans harbor about what virtually everyone in Central Europe regards as the foreigners in their midst.

May 24, 2007 4:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 16:57

nicoya:

as long as exploitation exist, there will be no peace. no matter what color you are.
and, lets be realistic, recism still exists too. i live it everyday, when i go to a restaurant, club, foodmarker. thanks god for a few laws that protect the weak like immigrants. no wonder why immigrants are demanding rights. we are tired of the abuse. enough is enough.

May 24, 2007 4:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 16:57

Doug Riemer:

Germany, and must of the rest of Europe, is a textbook example of "guest worker" programs. In the sixties, guest workers flooded Europe to staff the factories during that post WWII economic boom. Did those guest workers return home? Generally no. What have these workers, their families and children done in the 40 years since? Most are likely honest and productive -- but a minority have formed and joined extremist Muslim sects that foment violence in their adopted countries and abroad. And, due to their higher education and affluence than in their home countries -- mostly Turkey and the Mideast - they have the skill to carry out technically complex terrorist acts. This valid history must not be ignored in developing immigration policies throughout the first world.

May 24, 2007 4:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 16:38

Danny Perez:

In regard to Tom Wright's comment, and those like it. This country, the USA, was founded in the same manner. Those aboard those initial ships that sailed into the harbors of what would become the Chesapeake, New York City, and Boston, were nto rocket scientists. They were people who wanted to make a better life for themselves and their families. This was done by farming mostly. Exactly what most of the migrant workers come here for. To build, grow, and help their families.
If you want to point the finger at anyone, look at yourself or ancestors, who forcibly expelled, murdered, pillaged, and stole from the Native Americans, who 80% of those "immigrants" are descended from. The descendents of those "Immigrants from Europe" now, are fearful of what can happen should they become the minority. The truth is, Karma, likely without the bloodshed, but until people like Tom Wright, are either gone or change their views, they will only cause a mild distraction in the normal way of things.

Immigration began with the first colonists, and only by force, lies, and deceit, were they able to prosper. Immigration is also what keeps the world going, for better or worse.

DP

May 24, 2007 4:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 16:16

Danny Perez:

In regard to Tom Wright's comment, and those like it. This country, the USA, was founded in the same manner. Those aboard those initial ships that sailed into the harbors of what would become the Chesapeake, New York City, and Boston, were nto rocket scientists. They were people who wanted to make a better life for themselves and their families. This was done by farming mostly. Exactly what most of the migrant workers come here for. To build, grow, and help their families.
If you want to point the finger at anyone, look at yourself or ancestors, who forcibly expelled, murdered, pillaged, and stole from the Native Americans, who 80% of those "immigrants" are descended from. The descendents of those "Immigrants from Europe" now, are fearful of what can happen should they become the minority. The truth is, Karma, likely without the bloodshed, but until people like Tom Wright, are either gone or change their views, they will only cause a mild distraction in the normal way of things.

Immigration began with the first colonists, and only by force, lies, and deceit, were they able to prosper. Immigration is also what keeps the world going, for better or worse.

DP

May 24, 2007 4:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 16:15

Silas:

America needs people for the economy to keep it going. How do we get people to this country is a big question. We need people with different skill sets who are found in different countries. Do we offer all of them the same perks to come to the country? Do we give them a path to become permanant citizens? What do we do with illegal immigrants who are currently in US? What do we do with future illegation immigrants. What do we do to stop illegal immigrants.
Above questions are fundemental to create a comprehensive immigrations policy. Each one can be debated and where one stands on these questions will give a complete view for a solution.

May 24, 2007 2:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 14:54

Harrison J. Bradley VI:

Prior to further consideration of the immigration bill, I believe it would be useful for ICE to raid the Bush ranch in Crawford and the Kennedy Compound in Hyannisport.

May 24, 2007 2:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 14:19

Davie:

I don't think anyone is serious about deporting 20 million people. Stabilizing the number we have now and somehow integrating them into the economy is more important.

That said, I think most of the resistance to their presence is the huge demand for social-services (particularly hospital and birthing-center), the dis-inclination to learn English, and overloading apartments and single family homes with multiple families.

Other cultural issues, such as cleanliness, outdoor urination, and trash removal are also red-flags to a lot of residents.

This does NOT make tax-paying residents racist.

May 24, 2007 2:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 14:12

John Wiley:

Sorry about going off topic, But this website saved my life.

This is about kidney transplant - please email this link to others who or someone they know may need a kidney transplant.
Thanks

http:/www.ekidney.org

Thanks !!!
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Franfurt, Germany

May 24, 2007 2:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 14:01

Tom Wright:

Believing that swelling our population with tens millions of uneducated, unskilled foreigners...who broke into our nation... and their family members will save the already devastated Social Security system boggles the mind. Apparently Ponzi schemes are alive and well. What about the estimated $2.5 trillion overall cost of this wildly unpopular sellout of America? Picky, picky, picky?

Labeling those who legitimately oppose the "immigration reform" legislation by enagaging in name calling with such absurd terms as "racists", "haters", etc., ad nauseam, as was recently posted on this site, is an embarrassment, albeit reflective of the poster's inability to engage the subject intelligently. Move over Graham amd McCain...you have company named "Roy".

May 24, 2007 1:58 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 13:58

Roy:

Instead of outsourcing work to India, China and other countries, we would be wise to put ID's guest workers from Mexico and South America to work in the US. We could control the quality and collect taxes and social security. The racist and the haters are hell bent on deporting 20 million human beings calling them criminals and subhuman. These are fear and hate tactics of the religious right and the Rovians.
The haters can not argue that we do not need the money for tax and social security. They worry, however, that if we collect this money from guest workers, they have weakened arguments for their racism.

May 24, 2007 1:22 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 13:22

Roy:

Instead of outsourcing work to India, China and other countries, we would be wise to put ID's guest workers from Mexico and South America to work in the US. We could control the quality and collect taxes and social security. The racist and the haters are hell bent on deporting 20 million human beings calling them criminals and subhuman. These are fear and hate tactics of the religious right and the Rovians.
The haters can not argue that we do need the money for tax and social security. They worry, however, that if we collect this money from guest workers, they have weakened arguments for their racism.

May 24, 2007 1:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 13:21

Edward Ordman:

With the opening up of Eastern Europe nearly 20 years ago, we began a change in the relations between people and governments comparable to (but faster than) the fall of the Roman Empire, and a flow of migration comparable to that of the Germanic tribes into Western and southern Europe.

A great many of our old models (of nation, nationality, national identity and loyalty) no longer work, and we haven't had time or leadership to adjust to new ones.

The United States model, so touted as demonstrating "tolerance", may show good internal tolerance within the US legal structure. But we are increasing the extent to which national tight control replaces loose local control, and doing great harm in some other parts of the world, vastly damaging any role we might have had as a model.

To illustrate how a simple shift in viewpoint or identity changes things, and using very simple fictitious numbers: suppose average wage in the US is $20 thousand, and in Mexico $5 thousand. Suppose a bright Mexican making $10 thousand moves to the US where he can make $15 thousand. The average wage in Mexico just dropped (lost a high wage). The average in the US dropped (added a low wage). The average wage in North American just increased (the man got a raise).

The best way to increase productivity and reduce conflict is probably to look at things on as large a scale as possible, and use the added productivity (and taxes) to provide the welfare necessary to mitigate harm locally.

May 24, 2007 12:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on May 24, 2007 12:17

Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff

Germany

Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff

Germany

Accepting Difference in Our Workforce

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